installing updates under XP - freezes

[creeek]

HI,
My first post!

I have been using Turbo floorplan for a week or 2, on and off. A few crashes (never a good confidence builder!!)

Anyway, I got fed up of the crashes and decided to look for and updates. Nothing within the program, so searched and found the website and downloaded the latest patch "TurboFLOORPLAN-3D-Home-Landscape-PRO-PATCH-624-662.exe", since then I freezes on start up, so does not actually get a chance to crash! (doh!)

Sequence of events:
1: After checking the support site, I un-installed using the "remove" option, removed the folder under appData (using XP pro)

2: Re-installed, this time using the default location (I NEVER normally use default, all my programs install to D:\programs:\ ), tried the patch again... and again the same result, a total freeze, cant alt-ctrl-del and end task, need to restart PC, more lack of confidence in this program.

3: I then try to download the next update down the list in hope, this would fix any problems. "TurboFLOORPLAN v14 build 662 ready", just before it downloaded, the application timed out and worked. Wow, great.

4: Appeared working, I did some modifications, after updating the saved file (different file specification!). Then I click file new and then freeze again.

5: Had to restart PC and again same problem. Screenshot: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pool/turbo14_task.jpg

6. Again, un-installed, removed the folders, re-installed, tried the other, older patch. (TFPPRO_14_0_C1_637.exe)

7. After install, run program, exactly the SAME! notice there is no CPU usage, so what is this program doing??

Am I missing something?

One other niggle (pet hate), why on earth do I keep getting a short cut in my quick start task bar, when you ask, and I answer "no"!!!!?


Conclusion:
Sorry, but this program is rubbish and . Please get it fixed! Do some alpha testing followed by some beta testing before testing it on the public!
I read

I agree totally with the other post (my am I paying good money to alpha trial)


At 1st sight looks brilliant, once you get into it...mmmm not sure I would recommend it! Maybe I will change my mind, if I can ever update it.

BTW, I have written software and understand the problems... but you are 'professional'

I WOULD like this fixed, but looks like I will revert to original version, with all the bugs, but less freezes! (could be the weather in the UK!)

[creeek]

Just a quick reply, to myself!

Just re-installed original and all is fine! Back to bugs... but better than freezing!

I suspect, its the original question, about asking for 'slabs' (or similar) like a start wizard and just freezes, waiting for god knows what?!

Mick

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Mick, 

Welcome to the forum.

Looks like you are having fun!!!  Before I comment on the issues you are having I just want to explain something about myself.  You make the general comment "you are professional".  I certainly am NOT!!  'NOT' in the sense that this is a user only forum, so the answers you get are just from other users like me. Also I am not a computer technical person either, so do not profess to have all the answers in that area by any means. I may however be considered 'professional' in that I have been using this program (and its predecessors) almost daily for about 10 - 15 years (since V3, whenever that was).  In all those years I have had an occasional freeze but certainly no more than I have had from other software, some costing thousands of dollars more! You make the comment "at first glance it look brilliant" - I can assue you, after all the many years I have been using it, it IS brilliant, so hopefully you can get it working properly and experience it for yourself.

In my previous job (I recently retired early) I used to do some programming, so have a bit of an idea about the issues of testing etc and especially the time it takes. Just before I left, the company installed a new billing system costing tens of millions of dollars and there was much discussion about testing.  I was told, when I questioned some of the testing (or lack of it!!), that the modern way is to test, NOT until all the bugs are gone but for a set number of hours and once the predetermined time is up then we go live! That is exactly what they did, so you can guess what happened!!!  I know that costs have to be kept down and restricting the time in testing is one of the ways but unfortunatley you and I suffer the consequences!  Given the extreme complexity of TFP, (you will realise the complexity once you get deep into it, if you don't already) the program is very cheap. It's parent, which does little more really, is 20+ times the price!!

Anyway to your problem:

You said you have the 'original' running but with bugs, so a couple of questions:
What is the version number of the original, specifically the build number (624, 637 or 662)?
What are some of the major bugs you experienced with this build?

When it comes to applying the patch, it is essential to use the specific one for your build number. If you have 624, then you must use 624-662.  If your original is 637, then you must use the 637-662.  Applying the wrong one will not work and may cause other issues.

From my experience and the experience of others who have raised the subject in the forum over the years, the main cause of freezing revolves around the video graphics card and Hardware Acceleration.  By default Hardware Acceleration is set to ON during installation.  Try setting it OFF. This can be done during installation, or, once installed (if it will start), you can go to Settings / Program Settings / Graphic and uncheck the Hardware Acceleration box. 

Hardware Acceleration is very much dependent on the configuation of each PC and whether video drivers etc are up to date (especially ATI ones), so it varies from one PC to another. The effects can be different too, some cannot edit but can can render, others the reverse.  Best way is to turn it off and see what works in your case.  I had some issues with this on an older PC, where I had to turn it off for rendering only, but I have it on 3 PCs currently (new or almost) and all work perfectly with Hardware Acceleration on - which is great!

Try it Hardware Acceleration off and see how you go. It may be slower to do 'walk arounds' etc but hopefully it will stop the freezing. If the video drivers etc need updating, that may help too and may make it possible to have HA on.

I can't sympathise with you on the UK weather at the moment!  Rather than freezing we (in Australia) are liquifying!! Temperatures have been over 30 degree Celsius (85 F) for weeks and one place nearby went up to 48 degrees (118 degree F) a couple of days ago. Yesterday, Melbourne, which is further south, hence cooler than us (Perth), was still 37 (99 F) at midnight!!  Maybe that is why TFP does not 'freeze' here!!

Let us know how you get on.

All the best with it.

Allan

[creeek]

All working fine, on original version (except for odd crash, well more than the odd crash, but at least it starts up!)
I THEN tried the update 662 again.
Tried disabled hardware acceleration and absolutely the same.
remember that this starts up fine with the original version, but just for the hell of it, I will goto ATI and download their latest driver, but I am fairly sure I have it. I have the Radeon X850
I un-installed my X850 driver and re-installed the X850 driver, disabled the accelerator and tried to run the TurboFloorPlan!

Yes, it froze on startup. eventually I saw it in the lower bar and tried to click it, to maximise it and yes, it stayed there. Pressing

alt-ctrl-del allowed me to stop it, so we do have a Minor improvement!

Tries again to start program and the same as normal, freeze on start. Any more help?

Really dont think its the graphics.
How does this problem get escalated to the developer(s)?

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Mick,

I don't know that it is a question of going back to the developers so much as finding out what is actually happening on your PC. There are thousands of people using this program without any problem.  I have no idea how many really but there are almost a thousand members of this forum (some of whom have been with it for decades like me) but I would guess that less than 10% probably would join the forum, so there are lots of users.  This includes people whose whole business depends on it, while the Constuction Suite of its parent product, is used by builders and architects and the TFP part of the program is identical.

As a non technical person it appears to me that if you have updated the video driver, turned off HA and you are using the correct patch to match the original version number, then there is maybe some other software that is conflicting with TFP. In all the previous posts on this forum any freezing issue were solved by turning off Hardware Acceleration.  On one very old laptop, I had to turn HA off in the program AND reduce the sensitivity on the video driver also, but that did fix the issue.  I presume you have got the correct patch number and that it is correct in being the Pro one and not Deluxe?

You could also try reading the other posts on the subject - Use the Search function.  This one for example may relate: http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,722.msg4779.html#msg4779 but there are others of course.

If none of that helps you could try the Support people or send a Personal Message to Dave Taylor who replied to your other post under General Discussion.

Allan

[creeek]

Well, I am technical!

I have tried the obvious and maybe not quite so-obvious, I run other software on this PC. Not many games(mostly old), with no problem. I also run yucky Itunes, which is the biggest load of crap I have seen, but having an Ipod, there is little choice!

Problems like this need (and any other technical problem) need localising, isolating. That is where the difficulty lies. The software (Turbo floorplan), what is it doing, trying to do. I see some sort of 'option box', like asking a question, which I never see. Which why there are 2 tasks running under the Task manager (Applications). All I get is the 'egg timer'

As I see it, it is something different that the updates have done (all of them!), as the original program is freeze free!

I will gladly take and try any ideas, within reason.

[Draftcad]

Hi Mick,

As you stated in your post, we need to isolate the problem.
When I test programs, I use a process that is similar to the MD's Differential diagnosis--> if you have (for example) 5 possible diagnosis, you check each possibility isolated from the other four, so you can clearly outline the issue, without other interferences
Reading the description of your issues, I can see some problems so I think that I can help you to solve them.

Lets try something --> can you write the results of each step so we can compare the results?
First unistall all the elements using the Add / Remove programs (Control Panel) --> Do not remove any folder by hand!!!--> If possible, clean the Registry
I know that you have a special way / location to install the program, but just to run a diagnostic--> please, install the program in the default folders--> Open the program--> Go to Help--> About...--> write the version number / build of the original program--> check if you really need the updates--> If you see "Version 14.0.C2.662" you don't need any patch
If instead of 662 you see 624, then you need to download and install only the TurboFLOORPLAN Pro Update 624-662. If instead of 662 you see 637, then you need to download and install only the TurboFLOORPLAN Pro Update 637-662
Again, and just for diagnostic purposes, if you really need a patch, can you install it in the deafult folder?
After the installation, check the program behavior
Then, lets us know the steps of this process and the results

Pat / Draftcad

[creeek]

Thank you very much for your reply!

First unistall all the elements using the Add / Remove programs (Control Panel) --> Do not remove any folder by hand!!!--> If possible, clean the Registry
Mick>> un-installed via control panel, searched in registry for IMSI and deleted most applicable entries. I tried to install, and had an undesirable error, so I restored the registry!
Installed successfully, to default location, as I have except for my initial install!


I know that you have a special way / location to install the program, but just to run a diagnostic--> please, install the program in the default folders--> Open the program--> Go to Help--> About...--> write the version number / build of the original program--> check if you really need the updates--> If you see "Version 14.0.C2.662" you don't need any patch
Mick>> installed and the version I see is 14.00.C.624. Build date: Tuesday, March 10, 2009

If instead of 662 you see 624, then you need to download and install only the TurboFLOORPLAN Pro Update 624-662. If instead of 662 you see 637, then you need to download and install only the TurboFLOORPLAN Pro Update 637-662
Again, and just for diagnostic purposes, if you really need a patch, can you install it in the deafult folder?
After the installation, check the program behavior
Mick>> I have already downloaded the file named: TurboFLOORPLAN-3D-Home-Landscape-PRO-PATCH-624-662.exe which IS the one you refer to above.
I close down the happily working TurboFloorplan (624) and proceed to run the update/ patch. (which I have done before) My graphics is still in non-acceleration mode!).
I also close down other applications, except explorer. I run the patch from C:\Program Files\IMSIDesign\TURBOFloorPlan3D Home && Landscape PRO\ which I have always run from a different drive (where I store downloads)
I run the program and it was EXACTLY the same, freezes on start up, I think its the splash screen that causes the problem. I see a blank, white square in the middle, when I move windows around, the white square is always there, until, eventually, after several minutes goes away! (end application)

I incidentally tried changing my display from 1920 * 1080 to 1024 * 768 (not a pretty sight!!) and exactly the same problem.

Hope this helps.

[creeek]

Just one more point, when I alt-CTL-del and end application task. At first I thought it was NEVER going to quit and I restarted the PC (definately quicker!). But if I left it long enough, it WOULD quit and the time it took is just under 8 minutes.

Thought this time-out may be of use!

[Draftcad]

OK Mick,

I know it is frustrating but lets make changes one each time and lets try to isolate the problem
Just to confirm
1 - The main program and the patch are working from C (or D, etc):\Program Files\IMSIDesign\TURBOFloorPlan3D Home & Landscape PRO
2 - The Folder C:\Documents and Settings\....\My Documents\TURBOFloorPlan3D Home & Landscape PRO is in the same C (or D, etc) drive
3 - The C (or D, etc) drive is a normal Hard Disk or a recordable disk

If the answer of all of the questions above is yes, please try this (I know, I am boring!!!  )
Download / install / run Spybot Search and Destroy http://www.safer-networking.org/index2.html and Malwarebytes http://www.malwarebytes.org/ --> Both are free and very effective--> I know, sounds odd, but I saw dozens of users experiencing crashing and freezing problems and we solved them just cleaning the malware

Let us know what happend after these steps

Pat

[creeek]

Well, I am very surprised!!!!  PROBLEM appears to be FIXED!!!
The problem definitely happened around the splash screen/ "welcome to the house builder wizard", which I can now see!!

Not sure which program fixed it, both found some kind of problem(s).
I have used spybot before, but never the malware program. Very interesting....

Also the graphics hardware acceleration is enabled to full.

All looks very good, I have started Turbofloorplan 14 several times, and each time it has worked. Strange but true!

Thanks for your help, I was about to try another graphics card, which my son wants to try anyway, as it crashes his system!
Just one thing... I never said it!! (that you were boring!)

Mick (UK)

[Draftcad]

Hi Mick,

(about boring) --> just a joke!!! 

Glad to know the problem is solved

Pat

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Pat and Mick,

Thanks Pat for helping out with that one - for the most part technical things go right over my head.  Hopefully it will helps some others in the future too.

Recently I bought a new laptop running Vista. Had issues with TFP until I installed using the Compatibility Wizard. - then no problem.  The laptop came with an upgrade to Windows 7. I have been putting off doing the upgrade fearing all sorts of issues with many programs not just TFP, although that concerns me most.  Have you done any upgrades to Win7 and do you have any suggestions to help bypass any problems?

I notice that Envisioneer 6 is being released next week, so TFP V15 can't be too far away.  Should I leave the Win7 upgrade till then or practice on V14?


Mick:
 
Glad to hear you are up and running - now you only have to worry about the freezing OUTSIDE!!
Certainly not freezing outside here today - 38 degrees right now (100 F) and forecast 42 (107 F tomorrow).


Allan

[Draftcad]

Hi Alan,

Glad to be of help! 
As a matter of fact, I am not computer expert (I am an Architect), but I did computer programing and sw beta testing, so, understanding how the 3D home design programs think  the issues are easy to identify. The main secrets are, as I stated --> 1 ) isolate the problem so you can identify it  and  2) approach one problem each time

In this context, I think that your best option is--> upgrade to Windows 7 with a program you know well--> identify the program behavior with Win7 --> solve the issues --> upgrade to the new program

Let me know if you (or other users) need additional help

Pat

[Robert W - "robban"]

Hi Pat
We a very happy you is a member of this forum, and you way to tackling problems is very interesting. I have some technical skill but I'm selfmade then it com to computer and program. But in this case, I  was lost. Thanks
Robert