Can we have, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike1158]

An exact definition of what is needed in haedware and software etc to run TFPlan with hardware acceleration truned on for design/build/render?
Can we also get a bit more response from the 'management' please, pretty please?

[Dave Taylor (TFP Product Manager)]

Minimum System Requirements 
Microsoft

[Steve Clarke]

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the info, it's good to have input from IMSI on this Forum.

However the info you quote is just the same as on the Website. What we really want to know is the minimum version of OpenGL required for Hardware Acceleration to work, as Doug asked previously, http://forum.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,21.msg74.html#msg74. 'With OpenGL driver' is not sufficient.

A statement like 'with OpenGL driver 100% v 2.1 or above' is needed.

(My card is 100% Open GL v1.2, but 0% v 1.4 and above - so will be no use if the requirement is higher than v1.4 - which it probably is as I believe v3.0 is the latest version.)

This is a question I asked many times on the old Forum and Beta Forum about v10 and v11 - but no one from IMSI ever answered - so my advice has always been 'if in doubt - turn it off'!

It looks like it's going to be just as big an issue for v12 - "turn it on for drawing, off for rendering", etc

Thanks.

[Mike1158]

This lack of specific and oft requested information is, frankly, unacceptable.  It is 2007, not 1907 and customer do have the inteligence to use such information in the use of packages like TFPlan.
Dave, not intending to rant at you but can we please have the full monty and not the abridged version?  Please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nik]

Um, does *anyone* outside IMSI have a PC configuration which supports HA ??
---
To repeat my previous query on this subject, how about a small go/no-go test-program ??

As an alternative, perhaps we could devise a variety of cunning micro-plans which do/don't render with HA on reference system vs community systems ??
---

FWIW, FreshDiagnose is free to down-load and use, will test & report many aspects of hardware & software...

( Their e-mail with free registration code is followed by cheerful news-letters which are not quite frequent enough to classify as Spam...)

But what factors apply to HA ??

I remember first trying FreshDiagnose when we had the VERY SAME issues with FP HA compatibility...

Was that in v8 ?? D'uh...

I'd built my first CAD_PC *specifically* as an OpenGL 'screamer' for v6. Current Tower_2 is again optimised for OpenGL, has scary OpenGL through-put on 'random' drawing tests, the trade-off again being slow DirectX flood-fills...

I've usedWin'98r2, XP_SP2, two brands of mobo, Matrox dual-head card, twin BFG GForce Nvidia FX5200oc 256 cards, three or four versions each of OpenGL and DirectX, more memory, faster Athlon CPUs, yet more memory, an AMD64 etc etc...

Nothing I did would 'enable' FP HA...

About the only thing in common was my fondness for AMD processors...

D'uh...

[Mike1158]

I have another product from the group, called Turbosketch.  It is a render plug-in for Sketchup and has some fair promise.  There is also a lack of solid info there, which leads me to suppose it is just the same old IMSI story of customers being treated akin to mushrooms.
I have been running a high quality render since yesterday and the 'counter' runs in seconds.  Nice touch?
According to my math 93,636 seconds is aproximately 26 hours.  Currently 87% rendered.  Some kind of record?

[Nik]

Mike, is there a HA option in TurboSketch ??

And, uh, does it work ??

[Mike1158]

Nik, No, No, actually it does work but it is taking a lot of figuring out.  Quick renders are quite reasonable tho' and can be done quite quick while (as above) the top rated studio render takes a 'bit' longer.
In my defence I have a 3ghz pc, a 256mg graphic card (Nvidia6800) and the 5gig of ram so it should be quite fast.
The render here is a low light render (No, really Sherlock?) which only took a few minutes to do, what do you think chaps?

[Nik]

Hi, I've done some hasty research on OpenGL versions...

Okay, the latest release seems to be 2.1, but Steve's 3.0 may be in BETA...

My CAD_PC gave 2.0=100%, 2.1=66%, based on a suite of checks...

Here's the free OpenGL benchmark and reporting software I found.

Usual cautions apply: Set a System Restore point before mucking with whatsits. Use due care, due diligence, virus-checker, pop-up killer, cookie cruncher etc etc. If benchmark requires you to close all other applications, take your modem off-line before stopping the fire-wall, restart the firewall before the modem etc etc...

Realtech-VR have both 32 and 64 bit reporters which check your OpenGL's driver version and 'entry points' against internal database. The 32bit software installed and ran okay on my stand-alone CAD_PC, but did not notice twin graphics cards and dual displays. The test crashed this modest Browser_PC. I've e-mailed Realtech about both issues...
http://www.realtech-vr.com/glview/

OpenBench ran okay on both PCs. Takes 5~~10 mins, juggles six white then rendered spheres in a window or full-screen at different settings. I felt rather sad watching this Browser_PC struggle while the CAD_PC flew. I don't begin to understand the reams of statistics, beyond this Browser_PC being OpenGL 1.x at best. The same Open Bench (100k) is available on several sites, but some require registration.
http://www.softpedia.com/progDownload/OpenGL-Geometry-Benchmark-Download-767.html

I found but did not dare try the 'hairy donut'...
http://www.ozone3d.net/products.php#gpu_benchmarking

Hope these help !!

Now I'm off to find some new drivers for this Browser_PC...

[Nik]

SD wrote...

Thank you.
OpenGL under Windows is not supporting multiple video card (only DirectX does it).
The errors found in reported are just extensions that nVidia removed in later drivers (yes, they don't add extensions, they remove them).
OpenGL 2.1 is not supported with your video card (Geforce 6 doesn't, not the Geforce 5 (or FX)). It's a hardware limitation.

I will check the clipboard data issue for the next version.

The crash is probably a display driver (probably your budget pc is only supporting DirectX, not OpenGL).

For your application, try to use the GLIntercept program. It's a rookit that replace OpenGL32.DLL and extract all the OpenGL code. So you will see what's happening (if it is really using hardware acceleration of not).
---

On 20-Oct-07, at 6:55 PM, Nik wrote:

> Hi, I ran your OpenGL Extensions Viewer 231 build 224 on my stand- alone dual-head CAD_PC, was unable to check the second screen's graphics card, or identify which card it was testing...
>
> That system is running XP_SP2, has 3Gb RAM, an AMD64 3700+ (=2G2) in 32bit mode and a matched pair of BFG AGP & PCI NVidia Gforce 5200FX (oc) 256 Mb cards which, happily, use an identical driver release...
>
> OpenGL cheerfully reported as 2.0 =100%, but 2.1=66%, with a bunch of entry-points missing or different names, per attached.
>
> FWIW, your 'clipboard' data does not format correctly in Notepad, but traditional swipe-select /copy /paste is okay...
>
> Sadly, running the tests on this budget BrowserPC crashed the program !!
> ---
>
> I'm working with other IMSI TurboFloorPlan forum members to establish why the new TFP v12, with all-new CAD-Soft core-code,  cannot support Hardware Acceleration during rendering. We're told our OpenGL version is at fault, but our PCs easily exceed the box specs.
>
> D'uh, you would expect *some* users to have a compatible PC...
>
> Regards,
> Nik
> <OGLEV_LHS_txt.txt>

[Allan Chesney]

Mike,

I think the image has come out well.  I am afraid I lost it a bit in this thread - was this a TurboSketch render or TurboFloorplan?  Also, were you serious with your earlier comment about the 87% completed render at 26hours? Is that with TurboSketch? If it is, I think somehow the meaning of Turbo must be changing! It presumably should be a 'superdooper' render - hopefully you will give us a look - if it turns out OK.

Allan

The render here is a low light render (No, really Sherlock?) which only took a few minutes to do, what do you think chaps?

[Mike1158]

Hi Alan,
Yes, very serious about the render time (Tubosketch) and it actually completed in a staggering 32.475 hours.  The previous image was adjusted by Irfanview via gamma correction.  The Loooooooooooong render is below.  Worth the hours?  I think not myself but I may be byassed.  Sorry, punny day today.

[Nik]

Er, Wow !!

( I've issues with that over-hang and un-guarded stair corner, but I've a low pain-threshold... ;-)

[Mike1158]

Hi Nick,
The whole idea behind the project is a small footprint.  25 feet wide by 35 feet deep and essentially open plan on the ground floor.  One bedroom only with en-suite bathroom and a feeling of space as the core ethos.  The design has similarities to cottages/early terrace homes where you go straight into the living space from the front door with no hallway.  Curious in many respects because we would probably not think of doing things this way now.

[Allan Chesney]

Mike,

Well I would say the image is better, appears to have an extra light upstairs, but whether it is 33 hours better I am not sure. I certainly won't complain about FloorPlan render times any more!  I used to think that overnight renders for V8 was bad but maybe THAT was Turbo after all!

Allan