Bricks on wall

[lumaja]

I am novice on this product and have TFP pro ver15.
Trying the program I made a wall of the correct thickness and brick outside, after change to 3D I found there was to many raws of bricks I went and edit the brick dimension to my specific brick sizes 225mm with 70mm height and result was worse. Then I made a wall of height size that I know how many bricks has and the result in 3D was the same to many to count.
I look on help file to find how to excute this brick properly but can't find nothing that can help on this case so I turn to your good people to help me on my ignorance.
Thank you

[Allan Chesney]

Hi, Welcome to the Forum!!

I will just ones one of the standard bricks to illustrate what you need to do.  Take Clay Brick 20. The tiny image ofthe brick shows the full image that is used. Looking carefully it is 6 bricks high.  6 x 70mm is 420mm. Override the image size and change to 420 x 420. Of course you need to allow for the mortar too so it may be 80mm rather than 70.  In that case change the scale to 6 x 80mm or 480 x 480.  You can then double check that this is correct by looking the full wall in the preview window and count the bricks, as the preview is the full height of your wall. (see image)

Most brick textures are 6 bricks high and are square.  If you are using your own photo then you will have to adjust accordingly. If your image is 6 bricks that the formula above would apply.

Hope you followed that.

Allan

[lumaja]

Results of your explanation.
My bricks mortar spacer are average of 15mm, I change the scale to 6 x 85mm or 510 x 510 and edit the wall height 1000mm, using the same brick20 made a rectangle and check it in 3D, count 34.5 bricks witch to me shouldn’t be, change “Drop Exterior Face” from 300mm to 000mm count 26.5 (not a good idea) then I made a single wall with “Left Interior Wall” with same brick and the result is 6 bricks it seems there still something wrong. The same rectangle with the 230mm thickness walls I find the actual thickness is 460mm, and to get the 230mm I have to change to 115mm.
These walls are from my house, which I want to make a plan for later alterations.
Using outside brick wall from the catalog and draw a rectangle I find it has a blue outside line, what does it mean?
Any help on these matters will be very appreciated.
Thank you.
lumaja

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Lumaja,

If your brick is 85mm including mortar and the wall height is the default used in TFP (2438mm) then you should have 28.68 bricks.  The preview image does not normally show the drop face so you should be able to count the 28+ bricks.  If your wall is higher then there will be more bricks - obviously!  If you have the same settings as in my image then you should bet 28+ bricks (without the drop face).

I am afraid I do not understand the following comment:

then I made a single wall with “Left Interior Wall” with same brick and the result is 6 bricks it seems there still something wrong. The same rectangle with the 230mm thickness walls I find the actual thickness is 460mm, and to get the 230mm I have to change to 115mm.

I cannot quite make out what you are doing at this point so I will just explain a few things which may (or may not) answer you question.

The blue line around the walls is the Brick Veneer that is added to the normal wall when it joins to make a 'room'. If you break one corner then the veneer will not appear and TFP will treat it as an interior wall. The image below shows the same 230mm walls. The one on the left is open ended so it has not formed a rectangle and no brick veneer is added.  The one on the right is a complete rectangle so the veneer appears and takes the wall to its full thickness of 230mm. (I have turned the framing on so you can see all the components of the complete wall).

The 230mm wall is 230mm thick, (unless you are drawing it twice or have set it very thick). The only way to change the wall thickness is to adjust the Core setting.  This is essentially the thinkness of the interior timber part of the wall ONLY. When the walls join to form a rectangle, it adds the cavity and outside brick but there is no way to change the depth of either of these settings. If you have set the wall Core to 230mm then the total wall thickness (with the cavity and brick added) would be about 320mm. If you turn on wall framing, zoom in real close and use the Tape Measure tool, you will be able to measure the thickness of the brick veneer, cavity and inside lining. Look at the measurement in the Commander bar at the bottom of the screen to get the exact measurments. Add these up and take it away from the 230mm to see what you need to set the Core to, so that you have a wall 230mm thick.

I hope all of that makes sense and solves some of your queries.

Allan

[lumaja]

Sorry about this confusion.

What I am doing now is familiarize with TFP.
About your first paragraph, my experience is true in theory, the problem is when one goes to view in 3D the amount of bricks is no correct, I made lots of examples with different size bricks but not once could count the correct amount of bricks.
On my previous example with 85mm brick height and 1000mm wall height there are 34.5 bricks and should be 11.76, Changing the wall height to 2438mm (difficult to count) there are 73 bricks and should be 28.68 like you say. These examples are not on single wall they are on 4 outside rectangle walls.
The reason on the wall height of 1000mm, there is less bricks to count.
It would be nice when viewing in 3D to have it correct, but if it is beyond the program I can live with it.
The matter of the 230mm wall doubling the thickness was my error.
The paragraph that you didn’t understood is from “Edit Element>Walls>Appearance> Left interior wall”, change to Brick 20, made a single wall and count 6 bricks, again this is no important it was just to show what I been doing to get this bricks count correct.
Once again thanking you for your passion and dedication.
lumaja 

[Allan Chesney]

Hi again Lumaja

It would be nice when viewing in 3D to have it correct, but if it is beyond the program I can live with it.

I am not quite sure what is going on here but in the 3D, view if you have used the settings I used on the previous image, you should have the right amount of bricks (28+).  It should show correctly in the preview image and when you click all the OK's it should then change in your model.  It would appear you are doing something different somewher but I can't think where it may be.

This does work (it is certainly not "beyond the program"), so I will ask a few questions to help me work out what is happening:

1.  Where are you making the changes - to the wall in the Catalogue or in the wall in your model?
2.  How high is the wall in the model? How high is the wall setting in Building Locations?
3.  Can you post an image of the dialog box where you have entered the size?  (510 - similar to my earlier one)
4.  Can you also post images of the two dialog boxes I have posted below?

The only thing I can think of is that there is something different in these settings, that is making your wall preview higher than it should be.
Stick with it - we will sort it out!

Allan

[lumaja]

Hi Allan

 Result for your request
1 - I made a new file to star fresh.
2 - I change wall title for my convenience in Catalogue: “Exterior Walls” of “100mm Horizontal Siding Wall”
Edit the properties:
   Wall height = 2438mm
   Brick 20= 510 x 510
3 - Draw rectangle.
4 – View in 3D and try to count the bricks = 73 bricks.

Using the title Horizontal Siding wall could it be the cause of the problem?
Hoping you get to the solution of this puzzle.
Thank you
lumaja

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Lumaja,

Looks like you have all this correct - but one other place to check.
See if the settings are the same in the Mapping box.  See image.
This is to temporarily override a texture setting - may be needs to be reset here too as per my image.

By the way, you can use the directional arrows in this Mapping box to move the texture across the surface of the wall (so you do not have half a brick at the top for example)

Allan

[lumaja]

Hi Allan

Congratulations, Mapping was the very helpful one, the sizes are wrong in it, changing to 510x510, but the brick counting on 2438mm was 32.
Made few test with different brick sizes and checking Mapping I come to the count of 28 bricks with brick height 580mm.
What is your opinion?
I have another question my outside wall is from ground 2700mm height, 220mm with rough brick and 500mm to the top plaster and painted, how to accomplish this.
Thank you for your patient.
Regards
lumaja

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Lumaja,

Looks like we are finally getting there with the brick texture. It does sometimes require a bit of experimenting to get the brick count of the image correct.  It is all just appearances of course- has nothing to do with the construction.

Is the 2700mm the OUTSIDE of the wall?  The standard Building Location setting has the floor 300mm from the ground and the wall 2400mm (using round figures) which is the outside 2700.  The edge of the 300 floor is covered by the wall's "Drop Face" which would normally be 300mm. Does this fit your circumstances?

Just so I understand correctly:

What is the "220mm rough brick"? Is that the foundation, or is it in effect the Drop Face - covering the edge of the floor?

If I understrand correctly the top 500mm of the walls is plaster. What is in between? Is that where the brick we have been talking about goes?

Assuming I have understood what you are doing, the image below will explain how to get three textures on the Exterior Surface.If I have it wrong you may have to explain further.

EDIT:  Sorry forgot to add the image.

Allan

[lumaja]

Hi Allan

I agree with your first paragraph but it is better to see brick than distorted mass.
It is the same wall that we been taking about.
There is confusion on this matter I thick it came from my error of the wall with 220mm rough brick.
There was no image on your reply.
CORRECTION
The total outside wall height is 3220mm 2700mmm with rough brick and 520mm plaster and painted.
The “rough brick” is the face (I thick it is called rockeface not sure).
I hope the image helps.
Since I started communicate with you this post is coming very large, isn’t time to make a new one?
Regards
Lumaja

I send above reply yesterday but I found it was last some how so I try again.

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Lumaja,

Sorry about the image - I have added it now, so you may want to look at that before you read on.

I agree with your first paragraph but it is better to see brick than distorted mass.

I think you may have missunderstood my comment "It is all just appearances of course- has nothing to do with the construction." What I meant was, by setting the brick to the right size makes it look good, but it does not affect, for example, how many bricks are shown in the Materials estimate. Whether the count of bricks is 28 or 32, the quantities are calculated on the wall size, not the image that is used, so if it is one or two wrong it does not matter, as long as it looks OK.

Your image helps a lot in understanding your situation.
Before you worry about the different textures on the outside of the wall it is important to get the settings right in Building Locations, so you dont have problems later.  Looking at my comments on your image below, you need to determine your floor thickness and deduct this from the total exterior height of the wall. So 2700 + 520 = 3220 for your total height, less the floor (300mm?), so the wall is 2920 and this is the figure that should go into the Building Location as the wall height. If the floor is 300 thick then the wall drop face should be set to that also, bringing the total wall height nback to 3220 but the true height of the wall itself is 2920 becasue it is built on top of the foor and this is the figure you should calculate your brick size to (around 34). You do not calculate the brick just for the portion of the wall that is brick - it works it out on the full height of a wall built on the floor of that location - in this example 2920mm.

Re the different textures see the previous image.  The only difference may be the bottom section. The shaded section at the bottom of your image appears to be the foundation or the ground, hence I have assumed it is below the Terrain and so would not normally be seen. From my previous post and image, the wainscot would have to be set to the height it is above the floor plus the drop face (2700 by your image).

I hope you follow all that and that I have understood it correctly. I am just not sure about your earlier comments about three textures on the outside - your image only seems to indicate two (the third being below ground level - or is it above?).

Don't worry about a new post - it is better to keep the whole subject together. The forum will create a new page when it has reached its limit but it will still continue as the same post.  If the suject changes then start a new post.

Allan

[lumaja]

Hi Allen

 I understand about the quantities of bricks and what was your explanation but it is better showing the image with as near as possible that 71 bricks or more so I thank you for the battle that you went to show me the light.
I tried your last suggestion and looks right, but when changing the Wainscot Panel texture to brick gives warning “Clay Brick 20” was not intended for trim, I click YES.
It will be nice for the program to have the facility of wall with 2 or 3 different texture without to revert to tricks around here there is a lot of these kind of houses.
Back to the brick, with your brick 20 everything is correct but changing to brick 8 witch is as nearest of the one in my house and things go wrong I start counting again 71, change the height does not change much and tried other ones with same result I give up and use brick 20.
I send 2 images one a drawing with better explanation the other is a photo of part my house, I bought this house but it is rented and I will move into in November.
As you can see the bottom is proper brick and above (shaded) is the painted area.   

Regards
lumaja

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Lumaja

I am glad you are getting it all to work.

The Wainscot is quite a legitimate way to add a second texture to the wall and is provided for that purpose. A third texture is not specifically provided as such but you could also use the chair rail to do that also, if you wanted the baseboard as a baseboard. The chair rail can be set to any width too and provides a centre wall texture. These parts of the wall are given the name of the thing that are used for most but can really be used for any purpose. You could create the wall in three different sections using 3 locations or even stacking walls on one location possibly (Haven't tried that) but the using the wainscot is the way provided to do this.

You get the warning about the brick not being designed for Wainscot and similar things (using grass on a floor for example) but they do work it is just that it is not normally the thing you would do. You can turn the warning off if you want.

Since you included a photo of part of your house that had a good brick view, I have turned part of it into a texture for you. If you right click in the bricks group, select Add Material you can import it and use it instead. It is 6 bricks high so the same settings as for Brick 20 should work. At least this way you are getting the right brick or at least very closer to it.

Allan

[lumaja]

Hi Allen

The idea of the texture is a very good one but inst there risk to corrupt the Catalog? I read the posts about catalogs and there is warnings of corruption, for now I will wait for your always helpful answer.
Later I will contact you again about “Steel windows” I look at the Catalog but dint find any.