Experimental Desgin

[garystan]

 
Allan/Robert/Pat :

           I'm currently in the process of experimenting with glass.
           In my "City Home",   in the kitchen area I set up a  glass partition
           between the living room and the kitchen.
              It's still in the experimental stage.  I don't have it down to a
           science............yet.
              I'm not going to make this a permanent part of the model,  it's
          just an exercise in trying something different.   You know, the way glass
          is used for a separation between rooms,  and the way it 's used on
          upper-floor balcony  instead of a solid wall around it, etc...............
              Any advice ?

                                                                                garystan

[Doug.S]

What kind of advice are you looking for?  Do you have a question?

I have observations:

- glass normally has more reflectivity than I see in your images (and other stuff has more reflectivity than normal as they look like mirrors)

- a large piece of glass is very heavy and expensive....you might want to get 3 pieces and space them only slightly apart. Find a std size if possible....see a glass supplier for advice

- You will need a means to hold the glass in place at top and bottom

- consider how often you may need to clean the glass

-there are various tints/colors available....pick what suits you best

- if you want more privacy.....you may want the lower portion as translucent rather than transparent?

- consider very decorative etched/carved glass

- I have used antique door glass for this purpose. Harder to find but lower cost for very artistic effects

- look at commercial stuff such as in restaurants for ideas

- brass goes well with glass

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Garystan,

I am wondering, like Doug, what sort of advice you are wanting. Did you mean maybe what to use for the glass wall in TFP?

If so, I would be inclinded to use a simple 'box' (see Useful Shapes http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,315.0.html) sized accordingly, as it only has one surface, while a wall has many which can complicate things.

Allan

[Robert W - "robban"]

Hi garystan! Is  it something like this you meen http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,626.msg3075.html#msg3075.
/Robert

[Doug.S]

snip.....as it only has one surface, while a wall has many which can complicate things.
Allan

For the most realism, do not use a single sided plane surface....use a shape or object with a front and back and edges (a "cube") sized to glass thickness...
why?

Because you do want glass to have two reflecting surfaces....to give a double image reflection (looking for refraction? probably not going to find it as this is not a "solids" rendering system) such as in real life ...tho we are so used to seeing same we don't pay much attention to it.

And, nice to have control over the edges of the freestanding glass....usually a darker color such as blueish or greenish...if it is important to you.

If doing a close-up you may want to work with chamfered or rounded edges of the "cube" too....or pure square sharp edges will look fake....as "open/exposed" glass always has smooth edges to prevent cuts.

[Doug.S]

Also...not sure about your ceiling lights....if std recessed, they are reflecting oddly with squares of light on ceiling

Also one light seems to be burned out?

And you might want to also show a view looking from inside kitchen out thru the glass (and look for what it will reflect....don't want to be looking into a bathroom)

[Draftcad]

It seems that I am a little late.... 

I think the OP is not asking for architectural advice and this is just an exercise with TFP. Therefore, I agree with Allan--> keep it simple with the shapes and lights

But if you are asking about architectural advice, let me add one thing I always recommend to my Customers--> large glass panes are hard to clean and to keep neat!!

Pat

[garystan]

     Hi guys :

                  Thanks for all of your inputs.
                  I was just getting the  "feel"   of using glass in my designs.  Getting to know where
                  the boundaries are....as far as transparency and shine/reflectiveness.
                      As for the stuff in the kitchen.   I still want to  tone down the shine on the
                 fridge a little, but still have SOME shine to it.    And the black wall that divides the
                 kitchen from the living room..........I want to leave that reflective.   It sort of adds
                 some "class" to the look.
                      The lights weren't hard to do.
                      But I AM  going to remove the glass "wall" from this model.  First of all,  it
                 doesn't compliment the look of the place.   I DO want that  "open" look.
                      I made the glass with Google Sketchup, and then, after importing it,  I
                 did the adjustments on it.
                      I've seen designs where people had a glass wall dividing living spaces.
                      Anyway......................................

 
                                                                                         Thanks everybody,         
                                                                                                    garystan             

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Garystan,

I was just curious about this point:

I made the glass with Google Sketchup, and then, after importing it,  I did the adjustments on it.

What actually did you create in Sketchup? The glass wall just appears to be a big thin box.  If so, I was just wondering why you did not use the TFP 'Box' as it can be set to any size and is easier than importing things from Sketchup.

I did comment on the Box earlier as a suitable object to use.  As a Box it has all 6 surfaces, but it is easy in that they are all the same - set it to glass once and it is done, however as Doug pointed out, you could not set a different colour for the edges. If you wanted to do that you could use the Custom Member from Interior Accessories / Decorative. It also is just a box but it allows you to set all surfaces separately if you need to.

Allan

[garystan]

   Allan :

               I created that  "plate glass" in Google Sketchup.
               According to Sketchup,  a flat plane won't have any  "substance" without  a thickness.
               I didn't know  TFP had a  "Box".   And where, in TFP, do I find the "Box" ?
                  As for the colored edges, when I import the object from Sketchup, one of the
               settings in APPEARANCE, is the color of the edge.   As well as the colors for the other
               surfaces of the object.
                  I see in your reply that you mention Custom Members from Interior Accessories /Decorative.
                  If this makes making  plate glass that much easier, I'll definitely look into this.
                  With Google Sketchup,  I can create custom furniture, windows, etc.....................
                 The attached example shows a lounger I made in Sketchup.    I just imported it, and
             adjusted the size and material.
                  But, looking into the Custom Members sounds  kind of interesting.   I'll check it out.


                                                                                                          garystan
                   

[garystan]

    Allan :
              I did a little bit of a search.   And found Custom Member in the Element Manager Catalog.
              And,  I see how that could be used as a glass panel.  Using "transparency" , color and
             so forth.    Plus the other setting as for dimension.
               Hmmmmmmmmmm!!   That should work !  :-)
               Maybe it WOULD be easier that making one from scratch.
               But, some of the software that would allow me to create 3DS and DXF objects are kinda
           pricey.   So I went with Sketchup.   And with Sketchup I can soften the edges.

                                                                                 Much appreciation,
                                                                                         garystan
                 
     

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Garystan,

A few comments on your last couple of posts:

I didn't know  TFP had a  "Box".   And where, in TFP, do I find the "Box" ?

I gave the link to the Box and other useful shapes in my first reply to this question. Here it is again: http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,315.0.html.

And found Custom Member in the Element Manager Catalog.
And,  I see how that could be used as a glass panel.  Using "transparency" , color and so forth.

To set any object to Glass just choose one of the glass surfaces in Glass and Mirrors. Normally one of the ones there will do what you want without playing around with Transparency and Specular (reflection) settings. There are also tinted glasses if you want to make the edges of the glass dark. I always start with a default Glass setting and change the Specular or Transparency if it is not quite giving me the effect I want. Glass and Mirror defaults are usually fine.

I created that  "plate glass" in Google Sketchup.
According to SketchUp,  a flat plane won't have any  "substance" without  a thickness.

I don't think that SketchUp "plate glass" will come through to TFP anyway, without having to set it back to Glass again in TFP. I think, (someone correct me if I am wrong) that it would only provide a six sided surface (same as the TFP Box or Custom member) so there would not be any point doing it in SKP when you can just resize a Box or Custom Member and you will then have all the other Properies (Dimensions, Textures, 2D lines etc).

I can see the  SketchUp point about "a flat plane not having any substance". The TFP roof surface is like that. The Top surface and Underside are essentially in the same plane so you can sometimes (especially if exported to another program) get both surfaces appearing at once. Using the TFP Box or Custom Member, you can set the thickness to almost nothing but it will still have some "substance".

With Google Sketchup,  I can create custom furniture, windows, etc.....................
The attached example shows a lounger I made in Sketchup.    I just imported it, and adjusted the size and material.

Sketchup is an excellent product and very cheap (well the free one is!!) and as you say you can create all sorts of things. I have not played with it much due to time constraints. I can usually do things quicker in something I know, so I tend to do everyting in TFP including furniture, lounges etc. See the PDF attached to this post http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,1130.0.html to see how to make these things. The image below show what these objects were made from).

Making windows in SketchUp would seem to create a lot more work than doing it in TFP.  The TFP windows give you all the settings to individually adjust, but if you had the frame thinkness or whatever not quite right you would have to back to SketchUp to make changes and re-import and of course the TFP windows and doors automatically cut the hole in the wall and you can just drag them around anywhere and the 'hole' will follow. The SKP windows would not do that. TFP is capable of very elaborate windows.

But, some of the software that would allow me to create 3DS and DXF objects are kinda pricey.   So I went with Sketchup.   And with Sketchup I can soften the edges.

I agree with that, but ANY object you put together in TFP can be saved as a 3DS or DXF and be added to your catalogue - and TFP is not pricy.
SketchUp's ability to soften edges certainly an advantage where the object need a 'two way' curve.

By the way, these comments are not intended to 'knock' SketchUp in any way, I think it is an excellent product and some things appear very simple to do once you get the hang of it. The reason some resort SketchUp, even for some very simple things, I think, is that they do not realise the full potential already built into TFP. This comes about because it appears odd using the Floor tool, for example, to make a Lounge suite, or Members to make the gold rings (as in the image). What TFP needs (and a request is in for this as an enhancement) is to have a Toolbox of these different elements, where instead, of it being called a Floor, Wall, Member or whatever, they would be just tools you can shape and/or put together to make up other things. Even without this 'toolbox' however you can still do it just by utilising what each of the elements will do. For other examples see (if you haven't seen them before): http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,1212.0.html and http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,763.0.html.

Allan

[garystan]

   Allan :
               Thanks for your advice and support.   I took a look at the jpegs.   Nice.
               I take that I could make all those  "fancy" cuts in the wood using the "Cut Opening" ?
               But,  how did you make those circles ?   That'd come in handy for accents .
                  I'm not knocking TFP.   Heck no!!!!!!!!!!   It's a fantastic program.  I'm still showing off
               the possible results.  Especially after rendering (I know it sounds goofy after all this time).
                  I thing it was Robert (testing my memory), who advised of making some of the edges
              of my objects a little softer....more round.  Instead of a hard eges. (thanks for the advice
              Robert).  Most of the TFP objects (already in the Catalogs) are set to go. Rounded armests,
              parts of lights, etc.....

                                                                                                       Thanks,
                                                                                                          garystan
                 

[garystan]

   Allan:
           After sending you that last message, I got to looking at some of your examples and
           links to the other forum messages.
               WOW!!!!!

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Garystan,

I take that I could make all those  "fancy" cuts in the wood using the "Cut Opening" ?
But,  how did you make those circles ?   That'd come in handy for accents .

I take it from your last post that you have read the PDF's in the other posts so you probably got the answers to these questions anyway. Just in case you didn't: the "fancy" cuts you refer to, do use the Cut Opening tool in the Floor. The Circles were done by drawing a circle using the circle tool on the Layout toolbar, selecting it all, right clicking and select "Change to Members". You can then choose any member - I chose a round rod. I think the instructions on that were in the PDF also.

Allan