Basic Question about Multiple Floors

[ahr8tch]

In designing a structure that will have a second floor, I'm running into some more conceptual roadblocks.

First, what is Floor Thickness?  Is it the thickness of only the top layer of tile, hardwood, or carpet; or is it the thickness of the entire floor structure from the top side of the ceiling on the floor below it - which would include the framing and sub-flooring in addition to the visible layer?  If I calculate the actual thickness from dimensioned framing lumber and plywood, I get 3D results that make the thickness look too great (to my eye).  If I set the floor thickness to the dimension of the floor covering - say 3/4" for hardwood, I get 3D results that make the thickness appear to thin (to my eye).  AND . . .  in 3D view it appears that the floor doesn't sit on the walls but projects at whatever thickness below the top of the walls.  I've fiddled with Building Location settings without finding an answer that I can understand.  [While I'm at it, I'll whine about not being able to take measurements in 3D view, too.]

Second, what about the roof?  I'm trying to design a roof that sits on exterior walls (e.g., no second floor exterior walls) but has sufficient span and pitch to allow a second floor in part of the structure.  Second floor rooms are to be 'lit' by dormer windows.  The interior walls defining the second floor rooms are - obviously - set back from the Ground Floor exterior walls to allow for roof slope; however, when I insert a perimeter roof, the second floor portion is without any roof.  That led me to believe that any roof must be inserted on the uppermost Building Location, but I can't figure out how to make the roof continuous if I insert part of it on the first floor and part on the second floor.

I've read through Help without finding answers.  Am I asking too much of this software?  Or . . .  am I just a dunderhead?

No . . .   Wait!  Don't answer that 

rh

[Voodooman]

Hi

I use several different CAD softwares and this business of wall heights and floor thicknesses is confusing.

I set the locations and just sketch a house (doesnt matter that its not the house I want).

I then take a section throught the house and measure it in 2D.  I use this as a guide to setting locations - wall heights, floor thicknesses etc.

Once I have my locations set up, I delete the temporary house and when I draw my actual house it will work.

I always do this as it avoids having to change the house later if the floor thickness is wrong etc.

Peter

[ahr8tch]

Thanks, Peter. 

That is an excellent suggestion and one that I will follow.  I thought that the software should be able to figure out how to put joists on walls and set the thickness of floors or stop and prompt the user to provide dimensions needed, especially after having set some of those values in Building Locations and in the definitions of the catalog items used --- but then I'm no longer a programmer and never wrote anything as interesting as CAD software.

Thanks again,
rh

[Doug.S]

In designing a structure that will have a second floor, I'm running into some more conceptual roadblocks.

First, what is Floor Thickness?  Is it the thickness of only the top layer of tile, hardwood, or carpet; or is it the thickness of the entire floor structure from the top side of the ceiling on the floor below it - which would include the framing and sub-flooring in addition to the visible layer?   rh

Floor thickness is not the top layer, but a space provided (1' thick as default; but is adjustable)....that is independent of the ceiling below (so you have control over the ceilings)....

The space allows for the typical distance from ceiling below to top of floor above to accommodate typical floor, sub floor and joists/beams etc.

Once understood it is very useful and the exterior walls overlap down to cover that space...just like "normal" construction.

TFP has no "thickness" for the surface texture of wood or carpet...or for any other surface....Simplistically a surface is a mathematical concept of a "plane". Just like a point or line has no real "dimension" (except length for a line), a surface has no thickness (but has length and width).  Thickness comes from the distance between 2 planes (like a wall).  (There is more because a surface can be made of a set of polygons (sometimes smoothed) to make a curved rather than a flat plane surface and does not have to be rectangular...check Wikipedia for more explanations)

[Doug.S]

That led me to believe that any roof must be inserted on the uppermost Building Location, but I can't figure out how to make the roof continuous if I insert part of it on the first floor and part on the second floor.
rh

Try using roof by points or if you have a roof, make a 'break' and drag points.

Roofs on 2 levels are possible, not too hard, but require playing around a bit....try on a simple plan for exercise.  I have only done one so far and not good enough at it to explain.

Help file is good but does not go beyond the basics.  Try cadcourse.com for TFP training CD's.  Jack is excellent at TFP and other CAD progs and architecture so presents info well beyond the TFP intro.....but still understandable and useful,

[Allan Chesney]

Second, what about the roof?  I'm trying to design a roof that sits on exterior walls (e.g., no second floor exterior walls) but has sufficient span and pitch to allow a second floor in part of the structure.  Second floor rooms are to be 'lit' by dormer windows.  The interior walls defining the second floor rooms are - obviously - set back from the Ground Floor exterior walls to allow for roof slope; however, when I insert a perimeter roof, the second floor portion is without any roof.  That led me to believe that any roof must be inserted on the uppermost Building Location, but I can't figure out how to make the roof continuous if I insert part of it on the first floor and part on the second floor.

I've read through Help without finding answers.  Am I asking too much of this software?  Or . . .  am I just a dunderhead?

No . . .   Wait!  Don't answer that 

rh

You are not expecting too much of the software - I think you will find that it can do almost anything.  Previous versions could (with some workarounds at times) - this version does not seem to need many workarounds at all.  The help and User Guide does not cover everthing it will do.

I am not quite clear on what you are doing but it sounds as though your second floor rooms are inside the roof of the first floor.  If this is the case then your second floor is where the roof goes, on walls that have (almost) no height.  If this is right, then create a second floor location with a wall height of only 1 mm (or fraction of an inch). Draw the walls the same as the ground floor exterior ones and also your upper level interior walls and insert the roof. Any interior walls should default to extend to the roof, so even if they are only 1 mm high they will still be OK and will take doors.

You will also find that one location's walls will cut a hole in the roof of another location.  This is probably why you second floor part has no roof. This can usually be turned off. The method above however is is probably the easiest way to do this and it works perfectly.

Allan

[c130av8r]

Easy fix....I just figured it out, because I had the same problem. Select your roof, edit the properties, and click the button, "solution type", then select "ignore next story" . Then, no more hole in the roof. Enjoy!