Roofing an Atrium Design, Roof Object Problems, Shed Roof

[ahr8tch]

I've designed a structure with an atrium.  It is a pentagon.  I'm having a hellish time getting a roof on it.  I can use Insert/Roofs/By_Picking_Points and get 4 of the 5 segments in place but the last one goes bananas.

While I'm speaking of roofs, I'd like to know why I can't define a catalog object roof with the pitch, surface material, wall height (this is especially annoying because I design a lot of 10' exterior walls and have to change every side individually to get roofs to rest at the right height . . . grrr), and gable ends and add it to the catalog.  Why must we choose a hip roof then change the ends we want to gables?  Seems to me that we should be able to define a gable roof and have a way to specify which sides slope.  Am I the only one struggling with this?
 
Lastly, how do I add a shed roof for a porch?  It is not on a gable end but on a sloping side of the roof.

TIA

rh

[Allan Chesney]

What happens when you insert the roof on the Pentgon by perimetre?  It would adopt the shape by itself.

I don't quite follow about the wall height/roof problem. This is all controlled by the Building Locations so if set walls to 10' then all your walls should be 10' and the roof should insert at 10'.  If you do need to change multiple wall heights, then hold down the shift and click on each wall individually making sure you do not select anything else (eg ceiling). You will then get Properties on the right click and can change all the settings at once.

To get a roof that slopes only one way, insert it and then select 3 edges (arrows turn green) and set them to gable - your roof will then slope just one way.

Allan

[ahr8tch]

When I insert the roof by perimeter, it roofs the atrium, too.

You were spot on about the wall height.  I had missed setting wall height to 10' in locations (although I had set the ceiling height correctly).  Fixing that fixed the placement of roofs at the correct height.

I'm still struggling to get the fifth roof segment placed.  It just won't seem to connect and place it.  I think it might have something to do with the adjoining roof segments being gable ends (with 0") overhang, but that is just a guess.

[Allan Chesney]

Putting the Atrium roof on another location will solve the problem. So you don't have to redraw it just select all the walls of the Atrium, right click and Duplicate them to another location that has the same settings as the first one. You can then insert the roof by perimeter without interference from the rest of the roof. Turn off the visibility of the roof so you can then select the walls that were duplicated to the second location and delete them (when you are satisfied with the roof!). Turn the roof visibility back on.  Your atrium roof will them be on the second location. Putting parts of a building on another location can solve all sorts of problems as they do not interfere with each other.

I tried the Roof by Perimeter for a Pentagon and it worked perfectly.  Roof by Picking Points also worked with no problems.  I have just reread your first post and you said the last segment "goes bananas". The last segment of any 'Picking Points drawing should be allowed to occur automatically. In other words, in drawing a Pentagon you should only draw 4 walls and TFP will make the 5th.  If you are trying to draw the 5th as well, then TFP will try to do a 6th back to the start point (where it already is) so what the 6th tiny segment would. do would be anyone guess  If that is what you tried to do, it could explain the problem you were having, so it may be worth trying that before the 'copy to location' solution. 

Allan

[ahr8tch]

Howdy Allan,

Perhaps I'm not being clear about roofing a pentagon with an atrium.  Roofing by perimeter will put a roof on a pentagon structure but if the structure is a pentagon with an un-roofed inner courtyard (ie, atrium), using that approach puts a roof over the entire structure including the courtyard where I do not want a roof.  The drawing has exterior walls on the outer perimeter which forms the  visible-from-the-road portion and exterior walls on the inner perimeter which forms the courtyard/atrium.  I want the roof to be formed continuously resting on the inner and outer perimeter walls but not extending over the courtyard/atrium.

Another point of confusion for me is your statement:

The last segment of any 'Picking Points drawing should be allowed to occur automatically.

The only way that I can draw a roof by picking points is to start at an origin and continue around the perimeter of the roofed area until I return to the point of origin where I click again to complete the perimeter.  TFP will not automatically connect from the last point to the point of origin for me, as you described.  I can't see how one could let TFP provide the last segment - especially on a pentagon structure with an un-roofed courtyard.

I've attached a file .3ds file as an example.

[Doug.S]

I was curious, so tried, roughly,

See attached......really crude but makes the point..

2,   5 sided nested walls .....approx. (but not) pentagon (not even concentric)

I placed roof by points....starting on an outside corner, went around the exterior, then continued on to the interior corners, starting at the next closest point, around the same direction as exterior. After the last point I did a right-click and finish.

You can go back afterwards and adjust each point and line to get a better fit if missed any points.  Practice a couple times and it will get easier.  Could try inside then outside???


Hope it works for you

[ahr8tch]

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the response.  I tried to follow the instructions you gave but was again unsuccessful.  I'm beginning to wonder if there is some setting that I have incorrect values for.  Anyway, here is the best description of what I've done that I can muster.  If you see errors, please point them out to me.

In the diagram below you see concentric pentagons that represent a structure with an open courtyard in the center.  The exercise is to define the steps necessary to draw a 10/12 pitch roof over the shaded portion of the diagram using Turbo Floor Plan (TFP).

First Attempt:
With TFP loaded and the two sets of exterior walls drawn, click on Insert in the menu then choose Insert/Roofs/Roof_by_Picking_Points then from the catalog options that appear at the right of the screen choose 10/12 Hip Roof, Clay Tiles.  Placing the custom cursor for roofing at point A, and left-click to anchor where the roof begins then move the cursor to point B; and left click to anchor the second point. Move the cursor to point C and left click to anchor that point.  Notice that indicator lines follow the cursor from point A to Point and that another indicator line runs from point C back to the point of origin, A.  [Note:  I

[Allan Chesney]

Sorry but I did musunderstand what you were trying to do.  I mentally had a picture of the Atrium as a raised pentagon shape in the centre but glass covered.  I thought it was the glass roof you were having trouble with.

I had no trouble getting what you want by using Picling Points, which sounds as if it is exactly what Doug did, - as follows:

Using your image as directions I selected Roof By Picking Points Click at A - B - C - D - E then to e - d - c - b - a -e - E. Click and right click Finish. Go in as close as possible so you can finish as close as possible to E. You may end up with a tiny automatic join section.  Zoom in and straighten it up if necessary.

Another Option:  A - B - C - D - Click E and Right Click Finish.  Then Right click select Cut Opening, Click a -b -c - d click 'e' and right click finish. This will just cut the Atrium hole in the roof. With this one you may have to extend the Atrium walls to the roof.

The automatic join I refer to is probably obvious by the above. For a Pentagon click A, B, C, D, click E and Right click Finish. TFP will make the join back to A.  If you try to go back to A TFP will take that as F and make a join to A giving you a 6th microscopic side.

Sorry for taking you on a wide goose chase with my first attempts to interpret what you wanted.  We have a big resort hotel nearby called the Atrium, with a raised covered glass pentagon in the middle, so it was probably this that sent me off on a tangent!!

Allan

[Doug.S]

What else should I try?
rh

Suggest if Allan's words still don't work for you, then post the .bld file w/o roof and I'll try to place your desired roof on it and return file to you.

Maybe there is something else in the .bld that is interfering that we would uncover?

[ahr8tch]

Close but not yet a cigar.

This gives a shed roof, ie, one in which the inner perimeter wall is highest and the slope runs from it to the outer perimeter wall eave.  What I need is a roof with eaves on both the inner and outer perimeter walls, with appropriate overhang, of course.

I would really appreciate any further suggestions.

rh

[Allan Chesney]

Jeff,

Hopyfully we are there this time, with a possible solution (now that I have finally caught on to what you are trying to do!)

I could not get the TFP to slope both ways using the Pick Points method in one piece. Trying to set the inside edges to hip did not work.  So...

In the example, I created the roof on its own Location, with the same settings as the ground floor - just to save any possible conflicts with walls etc.  Then I drew each section of the roof separately (by Pick Points) simply butting up to each other. Obviously set the edges that meet to gable, before going on the the next section. I found it best to set the overhang to 1mm (fraction of inch) before I started, as the overhangs get in the way for editing later. You have to move the corner points close together (zoom in close). Turn off Object Snap or it will try to join the corner points and it will revert to the single slope or actually crash the program.  SAVE, SAVE, SAVE as you do it!!!  Reset the side overhangs later if you need them.

If you have any issues with the 5 sections of roof interacting with each other, then do it on 2 or even 3 locations, with opposits sides on one location and a single side on the third.  May not need to do that, as I found it OK when Object Snap was off. Angle Snap should be off also.

I have attached the BLD file as well, so you can see what was done. It is a pretty rough Pentagon but served the purpose to see if it would work.

Hope this works for you.

[ahr8tch]

That worked brilliantly, Allan.

It took me some time to figure out the nuances, but I was able to put a roof on a practice pentagon structure like the one I plan to use on the final design.  Here are some things I learned.

1)  Use a separate Building Location for the roof and set its variables the same as the walls (your suggestions).
2)  Draw a hip roof segment of one of the five parts of the pentagon structure left-clicking the first 3 points then right-clicking and choosing "Finish".  I was having trouble with extra points being clicked into the roof if I clicked more than 3 points.
3)  Select one of the inner hip edges and change it to a gable end roof and set the overhang to "0" then do the same thing to the opposite side.  One now has roof with eaves on the inner and outer perimeter walls and gable ends stretching between them at each end.
4)  Zoom in very very tightly and move a roof corner to the exact angle intersection that the roof will rest on then carefully do the same with each of the other three corners.  Zooming in very tightly and moving the corners as accurately as possible is critical.
5)  Save your drawing under the name "Roof 1" or something similar.
6)  Draw the next hip segment being careful not to come too close to the lines shown for the previous roof segment.  This ensures  that the edges extending between the exterior perimeter walls can be easily selected to change from hip to gable and to zero the overhang dimensions.  Then proceed to move zoom in very tightly and move drag the roof corners to their resting places. Remember to save your file under the name "Roof n".
7)  Continue the steps described above carefully controlling your cursor before clicking and while dragging the roof corners. 

Here's the result.

[Allan Chesney]

Feels good when you he a difficult one sorted out doesnt it?

Hopefully you will show up the finished model.

Allan