Gothic Arch

[cwmwlyrallt]

I am new to TurboFloorPlan and using it to model our local church. I want to insert Gothic Arch openings rather than circular arches but cannot see how to do that. Can anyone help?

[Allan Chesney]

Hi, I have a suspicion that this is only going to be possible by creating the window in a program outside of TFP and import it but there will still be an issue making the hole in the wall to fit it. That may be possible by using two trapezoid openings and hopefully the frame will take up the difference between the straight and the curve.

It is after midnight here so I will give it some more thought tomorrow.

Allan

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Cecil,

Well I managed to do it quite easily but it does not work perfectly.  I have attached an image and a zipped 3DS file that you can import (Right click in the elements section of Interior Accessories, select Add, select Import Geometry From File). It can be resized to whatever you want and could be used for a door, window or opening. For a door use negative Elevation to lower the lip into the floor. When you import you will have to set the size initially then change the X axis to make it stand upright.  Of course it still has square corners so that will limit how close it will go to a sloping roof.  You will have to use the Openings tool to make the hole in the wall for it to fit.

I used the stained glass image on a Box (Add as above but choose Shapes instead of Import Geometry From File). Resize the Box to fit the height and width of the arch and real thin and apply the image as a texture.  (Stained glass images are under the Glass / Mirrors materials or import your own photo).

If the slopes are not what you need you can make another arch easily as follows:
1. Start a new project and turn off the Terrain in the View Filter.
2. Insert a floor By Picking Points about the size of a door or a bit larger and shrink later
3. Right click the floor and select Cut Opening.
4. Draw a rectangle with a pointed top
5. Select the opening, right click and select Curve
6. Click the centre of the slopes at the top and drag them out to create the shape you want.
7. Do a File / Export and select 3DS as the file type (it will default to DXF - 3DS works better)
8. Import as discussed above setting size as you do (change later if necessary), set X axis to 90, set Appearance for all 4 surfaces.

I hope you can follow all that.  Ask again if necessary.

I'll add the BLD files too - they may help

Allan

[cwmwlyrallt]

Hi, Allan,

Many thanks for the time you have given to this. I do appreciate it.

As you say the process is quite easy - at least once you know the method ! Thanks for pointing me to it. Your detailed instructions were splendid and I have been able to follow them through. I've had a play around with both the method and the files you kindly attached and I should be able to make good use of all.

It's wonderful to have an expert like you to guide newbies.

All the best,

Cecil

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Cecil,

It's a pleasure to help.  I forgot to mention in the last post - I said it "did not work perfectly".  The problem I found was that on Advanced render parts of the arche would render black.  I did not have time for extensive experiments to find out why.  The render I did was Basic.  I will have a look at it again later.

Allan

[Doug.S]

Good job of construct and explanation Allan.

If someone wanted an "adjusted" model, the .3ds format works in most any 3D modelling program...for example make the top not rectangular but arch shaped, or cut off the bottom, or change the ratio of size....then re-import back to TFP.

Rendering black could result from shape having flat surfaces actually slightly deformed...tho TFP usually produces good .3ds shapes....it looked OK in my 3ds viewer.

Also typical 3D modelling programs allow one to name shading domains such that any face could have a different material applied which can solve the mismatch of brick or stone at 90 degree faces as seen in your .jpg image...tho many people would not notice the mismatch.

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Doug,

Actually there is no reason why TFP cannot cut off the corners or the bottom (see 2 examples below and zip file with 3DS and DXF versions - in case Cecil or anyone can use them). The Cut Opening can be used to cut the corners off, in fact you can make almost any shape this way but the problem is cutting the hole in the wall to take it. The closest you can get is the round top arch, so it needs the corners (or at least round arch corners) to fill in the gap in the wall.  It is a shame we do not have a custom cut out opening for walls, as we do for the roof and floor.  You can do it of course by turning a floor on end as a 3DS and insert that but it starts to get messy as the walls must still join (eg using Room Divider) to force the Exterior surface of the wall otherwise it will render black.

Interestingly the two arches in the example below do render correctly. I paid particular attention to setting all the surface colours separately on the original floor that I used. With the previous one I did not set anything, just the floor as it was. Maybe the textures, rather than plain colours, cause the problem. I notice similar issues are occurring in Envisioneer too. Some of their 'members' render black. The 3DS keeps the four surfaces, the DXF only one, which makes setting it all to stone quick! 

To minimise the effect of the stones not joining on the corners I normally use the texture 'move' option and this usually fixes it in most cases. The 3DS version has 4 surfaces to they can be moved separately. I did not bother doing that on these or the previous example (just time!).

Talking about Envisioneer. I found TFP will open the Envisioneer file and some of the things not in the TFP catalog, including dialog boxes, become available.  Obviously TFP still has some of the functions but they are 'turned off'. I changed the 'member' in the Envisioneer file that was rendering black and the new one rendered OK.

Allan

[cwmwlyrallt]

Hi, Allan,

Thanks for your further advice on this topic - I keep looking in to see what else I can learn.

I am now having a problem while inserting stained glass textures. Simply the the override tile size feature is not working. No matter what stained glass texture I select I am unable to get other than a 'tiled' effect with the design repeating horizontally and vertically. I have searched to see if there is any other setting I should be changing to enable the override but cannot locate one. Any solutions?

Apart from this minor glitch all your other suggestions are helping me a lot but I could not quite follow your 'move texture' comment. With the stone work texture I have selected (Fox Aspen Blend Southern Ledge Stone) the edges of any arch break course with the surrounding texture. It would be nice to get rid of this if possible and blend the two together, if not entirely then so the break is hardly noticeable.

I too produced arches with curved top outer lines but, as you say, there is then a gap to fill in the opening. Maybe a future patch will deal with this and enable curved top openings.

Cecil

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Cecil,

The move texture option is the 4 directional arrows to the right of the texture image and above the size override. This should fix the texture match on the arch and the stained glass. The latter I think just stretches to fit the size - it did for me anyway.

Allan

[cwmwlyrallt]

Thanks, Allan, I should have worked that out. I've sorted out my 'override' problem - all 'mats' were set to display, so mat0 (face mat) that was stretched was being overlayed by the rest that were not! Obvious once you know!

Cecil

[Robert W - "robban"]

Hi Allan this is great stoff
Robert

[Nik]

I gather from the ingenious work-around that you cannot import the 3DS mesh to a door-way, window or fire-place category so that it cuts its own hole ??

This was a sparsely documented feature in 'Classic' FP, and led to much hair-tearing as positioning of 'centre of model-extent' and other issues were iterated into submission.

I don't have TFP to experiment, but the crucial feature of FP's DIY meshes was that they 'surrounded' hole with a non-zero thickness...

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Nik,

Nice to hear from you again.

No, TFP does not allow you to import into Window/Door/Opening or any of the "construction" categories. You can import into most (if not all) of the other 'Accessory' type categories however.

Having said that you can add elements into windows/doors etc which basically creates a new bank object so you can design anything that you want - almost! In Windows there are 10 different types of rectangular windows, and then there are other shapes, round, hexagonal, arched etc. but it does not have a pointed arch as in the Gothic one. It appears to be the only one not there, hence the work arounds!  The opening for the windows does not have to be exact either - the 3DS will blend into the wall if it overlaps. As long as you move the textures to match, you do not see it.

TFP is very flexible - you can even make your own mouldings to the exact shape YOU want, not just preset ones, though those are there too of course, hundreds of them! The moulding added to the top of the cabinet was entirely my own shape.

Hope all is well with your family and writing.

Allan

[jjocsak]

TFP is very flexible - you can even make your own mouldings to the exact shape YOU want, not just preset ones, though those are there too of course, hundreds of them! The moulding added to the top of the cabinet was entirely my own shape.

Hope all is well with your family and writing.

Allan

Alan, may I ask how you make custom mouldings?

Thanks
Jeff

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Jeff,

I have created the image below which describes how to do it and the second how to use them, so hopefully they will explain it clearly enough.

Hundreds of Member profiles already exist so check the ones there first. You can do that by looking at them in File / Catalogue Manager / Libraries / Profiles. You can add new ones (right click) by altering exisiting ones.  Double click and in Properties you will see the styles on the Basic tab and each can be finely adjusted or you can go to Custom (at the end) and create a totally new one as described in the image.

A few tips:

If you will have the members at angles to each other (e.g. around a cabinet, or guttering around a roof) then make sure the Mitre boxes are ticked on the Details tab. This will join the corners and make them stay connected when you move the members.

Because the Layout tools draw in 2D on the ground, you will have to Elevate them if necessary, once you convert them.

If the profile comes out back to front, then draw the lines in the opposite direction and it will reverse.

When using the Line tool (as against the Rectangle), make the shape all in one continuous movement if possible to avoid breaks. It does not have to be precise as it will need to be adjusted once you convert it to a 3D member, depending on the thickness of the member.

Curves cannot be converted to memebrs but are perfect for making round walls etc.

A related topic: http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,867.0.html - I know you have seen this but others may not have.

I hope the explanations are complete enough - ask again if not.

Have fun!!

Allan