FloorPlan User Forum

General Category - V.16 and Earlier => V12 - V16 Looking for Help? => Topic started by: eulores on June 04, 2010, 03:56:16 AM

Title: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: eulores on June 04, 2010, 03:56:16 AM
Hello,

I'm trying to create a U-winding stair around a brick wall which is only 14 cm wide.
But as seen below, TFP15 does not let me enter a radius of 70 mm!

The stair consists of three segments: First and last one are straight. The middle segment is "P-type left".
I'm trying to set the parameters to the following values:
Number of steps: 5
Maintain parameters: angle
Actual Thread: 400 mm (fixed)
a- Position offset: 0 mm
b- lower width: 900 mm
c- upper width: 900 mm
d- radius: 70 mm (<-- this does not work!!)
e- Depth: 900 mm
f- Angle: 90 deg.
g- inside radius: 0
h- outside radius: 0
Landing connection: bottom
Adjust width: checked
Adjust height: all segments

I cannot enter a radius below 140 mm without the stair degenerating into some spikes. A value under 100 mm is simply rejected by the dialog.
I wonder if there is any way around this limitation, or if there are other parameters that I have to tune?

Best regards,
eulores
Title: Re: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: arspi on June 05, 2010, 05:37:35 AM
Try Revit, Chief Architect, Archicad, ..... don't lose your time here !!!!
Title: Re: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: Allan Chesney on June 05, 2010, 09:37:39 AM
Hi Arspi and welcome to the forum!

I think really that the comparison may be a little unfair given the huge price difference - Revit, Archicad and Chief Architect are in the range of 50 to 100 times the price! At just $99(US) and no annual fees, there really is no comparison!  Interesting when you compare the results though - TFP stands up remarkably well in its aim of 3D visualisation and photorealistic rendering! (See the Gallery)

Eulores,

I am not very familiar with the stairs tool since most places in Australia are single storey so I don't use them much. I wanted to have a look at yours but could not work out from your description which stair you are basing it on. One thought occurs to me though, (without looking at the actual stair you are using): Is 70mm the radius of the centre or should it include the width of the stair too? My playing around with them a little indicates that this the case but even so it will not go below 150mm plus the width of the stair. Depending on how it is being used, there are other ways to do it quite differently (not even using the stairs tool) but if you could identify the specific stair for me it would make it quicker - and if you give more detail what you are tying to achieve, there may be other ways to do it.

This post http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,978.0.html (http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,978.0.html) may give you some other ideas.

Allan
Title: Re: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: Kajvin - Robert W on June 05, 2010, 06:08:29 PM
Hi Eulores and Allan. Allan her is a link that can help you understand what Arspi will build. http://www.jeld-wen.co.uk/resources/additionalinfo/Top-20-Stairs-2009.pdf
Eulores her is my effort with some help of the document top-20 stairs have I down followd stair. but lovest radie is 100 mm
This is so close I can come

Parmeter marked red 2400/12=200, Stair Steps is 3+5+4=11
Baisc
a - Overall Height  2400 mm
Total Steps          12
b - Riser Height     200 mm
c - Tread Run        226 mm
Riser Maximum        250 mm
Show Riser           Marked

-----------------------------------
Parmeters for Stair 1 Straight

Number of Steps      3
a - Position Offset  0 mm
b - Lower Width      1000 mm
c -Upper Width       1000 mm
d - Upper Offset     0 mm
Landing Connection   Bottom
Adjust Width         Marked
Adjust Height        All Segments

------------------------------------------

Parameters for Stair 2 P-type left

Number of Steps        5
Maintain Parameters    Angle
Actual Tread           436 mm
a - Position Offset       0 mm
b - Lower Width        1000 mm
c - Upper Width        1000 mm
d - Radius              100 mm
e - Depth              1250 mm
f - Angle              90
Title: Re: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: eulores on June 06, 2010, 09:00:12 AM
Hello Allan, Robban,

thanks very much for your suggestions!
Actually, the PDF document has a model closely matching what I want to build. It's stair layout 19.
The total height (from ground floor to second floor) is 306 cm.
Each step will be 18 cm tall. That makes a total of 17 steps. I would like to see 6 straight steps, then the U-wind with 5 steps, and finally again 6 straight steps.

On the inside of the u-wind I will have a wall which is 14 cm wide. Apparently, TFP has a limitation, the minimal radius on the inside is 100 mm, thus, leading to an empty space that is at least 20 cm wide :-(
I will see if I can do a big design of the stairs, export it as .3ds file, and then reimporting it and changing the scale back to normal... maybe worth a try?

Thanks a lot!
Eulores
Title: Re: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: Allan Chesney on June 06, 2010, 10:40:05 AM
Hi Eulores,

I know it is cheating (as is exporting an overlarge version - good solution nevertheless!) but another solution, as in the image, is to do two L shaped stairs in two parts, 1500mm high. Make an L turn at the top of one and at the bottom of the other and elevate the latter and merge them into each other.  

The number of steps in the sections is not correct in this example I know, but it is just to illustrate the two sets of stairs concept.

Incidentally, I noticed using the L shape stair segment, that if you reduced the radius to 112mm or less, the 'spikes' you mentioned appear. 113mm or higher was OK.

Allan
Title: Re: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: eulores on June 06, 2010, 01:34:08 PM
Hi there!

Just a quick update: I have given up on the stair wizardry and decided to redo the stairs "by hand".
Of course, using the good old trick from Allan of creating nifty objects and export/import them as 3ds.
See attachment for an idea of what I wanted done with the stairs tool.

Best regards,
eulores

PS. Sorry for stepping on toes with that post about the keyboard shortcuts. it was not my intention to harm any commercial interests or rights.
Title: Re: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: Allan Chesney on June 06, 2010, 10:46:03 PM
Hi Eulores,

That looks great!  Wizards are ideal for regular things but they sometimes have difficulties with anything slightly unusual.

Doing it the way you have is sometimes quicker I find and in this case it has meant you could also put the curve on the corner of the steps easily too - I don't think the wizard would do that.

Allan
Title: Re: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: Kajvin - Robert W on June 07, 2010, 01:39:24 PM
Hi Allan and Eulores, I wonder if ENV will do it better, it look like 100 mm is the magic radie for them to, other vice this is a bug that they have to fix in TFP 15 I think it is to late for TFP 14. Maybe somthing to for Jack to test.

Robert
Title: Re: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: Allan Chesney on June 08, 2010, 12:52:21 AM
Hi Robert,

I have tried Env6 and the stairs seem to be exaxctly the same.  Still get the odd spikes on the corner stairs and can't go below 100mm radius.

There are very few things different in the 3D part of Envisioneer really.  There are a few extra settings here and there (eg you can set the widths of the parts that make up the Veneer walls instead of just the total width) and the Members are a separate icon so they can be drawn directly without having to use the Layout tools and Converet To Members, but unless you look deeply into dialog boxes it is impossible to tell the difference.

Of course when you get into the construction drawings and printing, then things are quite different. Things may change in TFP in time, as V15 now has door, window and room schedules which are really as 2D plan drawing component, so we may get other 2D functions eventually.

I must admit I am surprised that this stair limitation has not surfaced before though - surely there must be many stairs that go around a narrow wall.  I suspect if it gets addressed in Envisioneer it will flow to TFP almost straight away as it is only a setting rather than new functionality.

Allan
Title: Re: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: Kajvin - Robert W on June 08, 2010, 01:16:26 PM
Hi Allan, I agree with you, I have never think abut it, that is maybe the difference between be a happy armature that draw buildings for it is fun and not take the building-regulations so serious, and a pro that must take all building-regulations serious. :D

I have now upgrade to version 15 and it download rather fast only 15 min, I have not done so much yet only a ground configure for two screen, all tools and Info panel to second screen, and set all my default tfp 14 directory and copy the new templates, and catalogs, but all the other files look like it is the same as in version 14.

I will make a new try with the U-Winding stairs and look if I can do different in TFP 15 but I don't think I will have success.

Robert
Title: Re: U-Winding stairs with 7 cm inner radius
Post by: Kajvin - Robert W on June 08, 2010, 03:12:33 PM
Allan, I come to same result as you I  think we will put it on fix-this-list for both program, a better tool for the stairs.
Robert