Guys...
Over the last two days as I've tried to render I get the following error message. I've tried changing the time of day, location, sun direction, render quality... but always get the same message whether on basic or advanced render...any ideas what's going on?
Gaz
Hi Garry,
If you are getting this on Basic and Advanced and moving the camera or sun position does not help, then I would be concerned that there is some form of corruption in the model - usually a bad wall join that it cannot resolve when rendering but can be other things or even imported objects.
The first thing I would try is File / Repair Project. Sometimes this will find the corrupt object and delete it. Sometimes it can be small and you will not see what vanished, but sometimes a wall may disappear - and sometimes nothing will happen. In the latter case you have to find the problem by close scrutiny of things, especially walls joins. This has been covered a number of times so try the Search for Wall and Joins would be a good combination of words or even just the word 'corrupt', should find the suggestions on finding the corruption.
If you can't find anything, you may like to post the model here or email it to me if you prefer - alches(AT)iinet.net.au (replacing (AT) with @ of course) and I will have a look for you.
Allan
Thanks Allan,
I eliminated one object at a time until the program would render and found it was an imported object...thank you.
Gaz
Hi Garry,
Yes they can be a problem sometimes. I keep imports to a bare minimum for that reason, making the things I want within the program if I possibly can - which is 99% of the time. Helps with file size too.
Allan
Hi Gaz.
Rather than starting by deleting walls one at a time, you should just use the View Filter.
First option as Allan said would be to turn off walls, test render. If the error is still there you can turn off another layer. After finding the general layer problem, lets say it was a wall, you can delete 25% of them at a time until you find the general area. Then use Undo to get all the walls back, and start hunting for the one or two bad ones.
In this case turning off the layer that had the imported object would be the key.
Jack
Jack & Allan, you may be able to help me on this one: when I try to execute a basic render the program crashes., ok in advance render, any clues?
See screen dump
I tried basic render of a simpler drawing and the results are below. Any suggestions, advance render is fine.
The advice is about the same as it was for GAZ. You will have to try the 'repair' option, then keep looking until you find what is 'corrupt'.
Jack
Jack, the simple drawing consists of walls, roof and windows, so there should not be any corrupt parts. I tried the repair option but no results.
Hi Bob,
Does a new project, just 4 walls and a roof render OK? (or is that all you second image was? - try with a different wall/roof combination)
If it does it is obviously a problem in that model somewhere not the program or installation.
If you are talking about the model in the image earlier - I notice it has my (presumably) solar HWS on the roof. As it is an imported object, I would turn that off in the view filter and render again. If it works ,the imported object is causing the problem. It does not cause any problem for me but it is not even necessariy the object itself but maybe it is causing an issue with the roof - if it is breaking the surface of the roof for example. Raise the HWS so it is not actually touching the roof - it may be OK that way. Turn off the roof in View Filter and render - that would prove that point.
If that proves to be OK I would start next with walls as they are most often where corruptions can occur. Turn off walls in the View filter and render - if it renders OK there IS a problem somewhere in the walls, usually at an interesection.
It is just a process of elimination to find where the problem is: Hide something, render. If it still fails, turn that on again and turn something else off and render again, and repeat the process until it does render Ok - what you currently have off that time is where the problem is.
Allan
Allan, thanks for the reply, maybe a silly question, why would advance rendering be ok and basic rendering a problem, I thought that it would be the other way around. I guess that if basic render continues to be a problem, one can always use advance rendering even though some what slower.
The simple building in the second post consists of walls, automatic fitted roof and standard windows, so it should have rendered ok.
I played around with your solar HWS in the first image, lifted it above the roof, turned off the filter and even deleted it, no joy. Program still crashes.
If there is a corruption problem in the drawing, why would it cause the TFP to crash. (ie TFP completely closes down). I would have thought that if there was a problem ,render may not work, but the TFP should not crash. Maybe I need to take this up with IMSI.
Have you tried renders using a TFP supplied example design...anyone will do...we know they are "problem" free???
Have you tried with h/w acceleration on vs. off?
Have you tried at different resolutions pxels x pixel size?
These may lead to more clues.
When you do advanced render OK, does it also follow with the basic/RT render also or is that option off? Tried both ways?
Oddly I too have had basic render take much longer than advanced render (icluding basic after adv was done)...seemingly no explanation.
There is a good explanation for the differences (in time and quality) between basic and advanced quality
The basic rendering is "muscle based" so it uses more raster resources, therefore your videocard must work in full force
The advanced rendering is more "inteligence based" so it uses more vector resources, therefore if you have a set (motherboard, chip, motherboard, memory), you will render without problems
Hope this helps
Pat
Pat, thank you for the info, maybe you have hit the nail on the head, perhaps the video card is the problem as the computer is some 4 years old (top of the range when purchased) maybe time to invest in a new one. Rendering time with advanced level 3, 500 steps is just under 50 seconds, which is not bad for the age of the computer.
I tried Allan's suggestion to try a supplied sample and while TFP didn't crash basic rendering didn't work.
If you zip and post the file, it can be tested. If it works for others , then you may have a problem with your computer.
One of the first things you should do if you suspect computer problem is to check for upgrade of your video card. I do renderings on a laptop that is quite old and while they are slower, it does both Basic and Advanced OK.
I have seen a Basic render fail and Advanced work. I don't know how the program actually calculates things but it has happened.
How is your memory? Computer that is. The first 'must close' error seems more memory related. But I'd check graphics card first if you don't find an error in the drawing. When it only partially renders most time it is a drawing error of some sort.
Can you get any Basic render to work?
Jack
Quote from: Burgo on May 25, 2012, 07:31:48 PM
Pat, thank you for the info, maybe you have hit the nail on the head, perhaps the video card is the problem as the computer is some 4 years old (top of the range when purchased) maybe time to invest in a new one. Rendering time with advanced level 3, 500 steps is just under 50 seconds, which is not bad for the age of the computer.
I tried Allan's suggestion to try a supplied sample and while TFP didn't crash basic rendering didn't work.
Please, post a file (the simple one will be OK) so we can compare the results
In addition, please, post thhe specs of your computer --> chip, memory, videocard specs, etc. Sometimes, the age of the computer is not important, but the specs are. For example, I have an old XP computer, that I bought in 2003, and I have a new Win 7 computer that I bought last year and in both cases, TFP works flawlessly
Pat
Quote from: Burgo on May 25, 2012, 07:31:48 PM
snip
to try a supplied sample and while TFP didn't crash basic rendering didn't work.
Did you try render with and w/o h/w acceleration on/off? With it "off" you eliminate graphics card use; may take longer but may work....you can turn it on/off for design or renders as needed.
If always on, does display always work OK? different when "off" (other than slower)?
I had a 6 yr old PC that handled TFP16 OK.
Jack, plenty of ram memory but a bit short on brain memory. Attached is a zip file of a basic drawing that failed basic render on my machine, would be interested if it succeeds on yours.
Regard Bob
Doug & Pat, thanks for your reply. I have posted a simple plan that failed on my machine, so have a look and see what you can come up with.
Doug, tried render with video card HA on and off, but not difference. I have noticed that the display on the screen in much better and sharper when turned off, so I will leave it off in the future.
Pat, computer specs show on the attached screen dump.
Regards Bob
Hi Bob,
Well I tried Rendering your model and had no problems, Basic or Advanced. Added a bit of landscapeing for effect and still fine.
I did not ice that the window glass was very blue and not from the normal Glass/Mirror group but another one was added to my catalogue. It rendered Ok (although I did changes it as it looked odd) but this just made me wonder if you had imported other materials etc, although I don't think that would cause a render issue. Even with the blue glass it still rendered OK.
My PC is a Core i7, 4GB RAM, 512 Nvidia graphics. Basic took 18 Seconds, Advanced just over 3 min 10 Sec.
Obviously there is nothing wrong with the model itself - will leave further diagnosis to Pat or other computer experts.
Allan
I too had no issues rendering either basic or advanced...see images
I ran render with defaults in the file, nothing added nor changed except camera position/view
made 1.4MB .bmp files reduced to .jpg using "RIOT" prog.
Basic = 5 sec.
Adv = 19 sec.
win7pro x64 i7-3.4GHz 12GB-RAM 1GB-Radeon6870
If HA = no diff, then not likely to be vid card. 1GB RAM w/XP (if nothing else running) should be OK...I used to run 2GB XP with TFP just fine with several other apps running too.
If you want to investigate further (since it is not the model)...I'd have XP OS perf-mon (performance monitor) and task manager running when you do a render to see if a spike/max. in CPU and disk use or over-run of RAM or other issues. Long shot it is a virus scan prog issue...try disconnect with www and turn off antivirus program...and try renders.
Allan & Doug, thanks for your help, much appreciated. I think I will just give up with basic rendering. I have tried all your suggestions but still get the same result, frustrating. Just a simple render results in TFP crashing or the results below.
Lately I have been getting the attached warning when I close the program settings dialogue box, could there be a connection.
Bob
Hi Burgo,
Don't give up. Try these steps --> these are the same steps I recommended to you back in November (program crash) --> I still think that your videocard is creating some type of interference
1 - Check the website of your video card manufacturer and update the drivers
2 - Go to the video setup on your PC (may be different for different versions of Windows and video card); for most, click on an empty part of the windows Desktop, click on Settings->Advanced->Troubleshoot). Back the accelerations slider to the left, one level each time and see if the problem disappears. Now, if you the accelerations controls are not available, this means that you don't have a dedicated memory for video. In this case, go to the control panel of your video chip / adapter --> performance --> move the control and set down the performance. This may help
3 - Right click on the wallpaper (look for a place without icons)--> Properties--> Settings--> Advanced--> Open GL--> Compatibility Settings--> Force 16 bits--> Apply--> OK
4 - Some NVidia card users reported additional problems--> in this case change the color settings from 32 bit to 16 bit
5 - Go to www.microsoft.com/directx, and see what version is current and check if you have this version installed in your computer
Let us know about the results
Pat
Hi Bob,
Please follow through on Pat's suggestions, as he has sorted out many users problems in the past, so hopefully can narrow yours down also.
I would just like to take up the point about the error message as you close down. I would suggest that you go to the same set of folders as appear for Catalogue etc and create a folder with the name Projects. First that should stop the error message but the Projects folder is the default location for your files and where the AutoSave backup files are automatically saved. Do you have AutoSave turned on? It is probably wise unless you are very disciplined in saving at regular intervals.
Unless you have allocated to same an image with a specific name in a differetn folder TFP will usethe Projects folder to save a TGA file, which is a temporary file for the image you are generating. It disappears when the image is finished. This file first appears a few seconds into the render. Whether the non-existance of this folder is causing an issue here with the render or not I do not know, but the folder should be there and it MAY (stress MAY) have something to do with the termination of the basic render. It won't hurt to try it anyway. More sgnificantly, it may mean you are not getting a backup of your projects and that could be a disaster!
I presume you have Render To File ticked in the Render settings? What address does it show as the Location where it will be saved?
Allan
Pat, no joy,
1.updated the video driver to current,
2. moved the acceleration slider to the left one level each time, no difference.
3. Got to settings - advance, no open GL on the tab .
4. Color setting was already 16 bit.
5. opened website and was directed to X Box web page. Is this the correct web page?
Your help is greatly appreciated.
I sense the problem has been revealed....TFP does not know where to save the basic render (although this idea fails because why would it know where the adv render gets saved?)
In any event....when you have a successful render...do you find the file OK? Does that location match where in prog settings TFP saves renders?
And TFP seems to want a specific kind of location that is not "read only" as it must write to that location to save your files and TFP must have authority to write to there....so the default location established when TFP is installed is a safe and OK place....I know, I have tried and run into pseudo read only locations (even tho they are not read only) and TFP gives write errors.
So once you have the save to location set....open explorer (for folders, not internet) and watch the folder when you render...it will after a while make a temp file until render is done and then finalize and remove the temp file. Basic renders set the temp file partway through rendering and if temp file cannot be established it will stop rendering.
Quote from: Burgo on May 27, 2012, 08:44:02 PM
3. Got to settings - advance, no open GL on the tab .
5. opened website and was directed to X Box web page. Is this the correct web page?
3 --> Open GL --> in your case, perhaps you will find it the the NVidia Control Panel
5 -- > yes, it seems that the page was moved --> try this page --> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/179113
An additional suggestion
Run these 2 free programs (run both)
- Malwarebytes --> http://www.malwarebytes.org/
- Spybot --> http://www.safer-networking.org/index2.html
Pat
also consider going here to download a free open gl viewer/tester to get info on your graphics card capabilities
http://www.realtech-vr.com/glview/
easy to run and understand
Only downside is that IMSI does not specify what capabilities are needed to run TFP
Quote from: Doug.S on May 28, 2012, 02:32:53 PM
Only downside is that IMSI does not specify what capabilities are needed to run TFP
http://imsidesign.com/Products/TurboFLOORPLAN/TurboFloorPlan3DProv16/SystemRequirements/tabid/1657/Default.aspx
Pat
OK, clarification, as we were talking about vid cards...
IMSI does not specify requirements of what level of OpenGL driver is needed...
like 1.7 min. as an example, and shader model level ? ....
detailed such as provided by Adobe for Photoshop along with list of tested/approved vid cards etc.?
The requirements for Photoshop or Turbocad, for example are for specific rendering works, not for general rendering.
For example, with TC v19, in order to use the Redsdk GPU-accelerated display mode, you'll need some specific VC / chipsets. The specs, brands and models are in a "Read me" file that comes with the program. And in addition, TC V19 comes in 2 "flavors" 32 and 64 bits and this makes a big difference
Now, in the Turbofloorplan case, any Video card with OpenGL driver and at least 64 MB RAM (128 MB or greater dedicated graphics card recommended) will do. The OpenGL driver is related with the card specs, so, if the card fits the specs, the open GL level will fit TFP.
Pat
A little further progress.
Following Allan's lead, creating a project folder in the main TFP directory has solved the warning message when the Program Settings Dialogue Box is closed.
The Basic rendering saga, following Doug & Pats lead, basic render has progressed a little further, it now produces a cstmp.tga file on completion of the render. I have no idea what the file is but it won't open with any applications I am running. Does this complicate the situation more or is it providing a clue.
Again, many thanks for your help.
Bob
Bob,
a *.tga file is a Targa File format. There are several programs that can open this type of file --> Photoshop, Photoimpact, Serif, etc
If you wish, post the file. I will be glad to open it and convert to jpg , so we can see the results
Pat
Pat, I tried to open with Photoshop but go an error message. Is there a reason why basic render produced this type of file as I saved it as a jpg file before I rendered?
Just a thought, would the render settings be impacting on the basic render? and what would you recommend.
Hi Bob,
Basic produces the tga file as a temp file - you are not intended to open it as it vanishes when the image is finished as a bmp or jpg.
The render settings are basically for Advanced althought daylight will affect Basic of course as will the Global settings.
Earlier I asked if you had ticked the 'Render to File' box and told it where you wanted to save the file to. These may make a difference. It is bes to browse to an address to save and choose JPG. BMP will create a much larger file which is important to avoid if you are posting it on the forum.
Allan
Thanks Allan, yes I have ticked the render to file box and nominated a file location.
I am giving up on this one, but many thanks to all who have tried to help solve the issue.
We don't give up easily because we all learn from each other.
Tracking down problems to resolution is like solving a mystery....and hard to walk away from it.
Did you set file location OK in program setup to save to a projects folder and has the error warning gone away?
Doug, I usually don't give up, but this one has beat me and I don't have the time and further energy to proceed. Maybe a new video card might be the easiest solution.
Yes the error warning was solved by creating a projects folder.
Many thanks for your help.
Bob
Bob,
Just a note: if you decide to buy a new video card, keep in mind that not all the video cards / mnanufacturers offer support and new drivers for Windows XP (your OS, as per your post)
Last month, one of my customers got a new video card. The box states that it works with XP, however the last driver for this card is from 2009 so it doesn't work with the current drivers of the remaining hardware / software.
Actually, this might be the main problem in your case
Pat
Pat, thanks for the advice.
Hi Bob,
If you you do decide to proceed any further with this at any time and need more guidance, and since you and I are in Australia, we could probably exchange phone numbers and accomplish things quicker that way. I don't think Pat would mind either if your were to email him direct. He is going to be more use to you in this than me however, as I am not a techo when it comes the the hardware side of things.
You can use the Personal Message option to contact us both and share numbers I you want to do so at any time.
Allan
Thanks Allan, if i decide to proceed further I will contact your via email.