A 19th century house in Stockholm has external walls that are .5 meter thick and the windows sit recessed in rectangular window-niches. The side surfaces of the niches are slightly angled (15 degrees wider at the interior wall surface than the exterior) and contain bevelled panels, just like an old door - very pretty.
I looked at Openings | Niche but didn't find a type that allowed for angled sidesurfaces. So I set out to use what little I knew trying to create something like it by fiddling around with pieces of walls. But it seems to confuse the h-ll out of the program - it suddely decides to delete some of the wall pieces, or squeeze or distort them. And it doesn't restore them by "undo".
I know that one can do almost everything with this product, but I am a beginner and seem to run around in circles and waste a lot of time barking up wrong trees. So I need some seasoned guidance. Does anyone out there have a tip on how to achive this window-niche effect?
If you have another 3D program to make .3ds objects....If you don't, get free Sketchup from Google....it also has a large set of objects....does not save as .3ds but native .skp output works as import to TFP...major help to TFP!!!!
export the existing TFP object that is close to what you want....import and "adjust" design to what you want and save as .3ds
import new 3ds model niche into TFP...turn collision detection off to place it OK
If you don't have other program, search www for object but since it is so unusual it may not exist elsewhere.
Many objects can be made from existing catalog in TFP but niche's are not so easy to do.
If you post the exported TFP object here and include a picture of the size and shape of what you want....and its a simple construct, I can probably generate a .3ds object for you in a day or so....depending on when I see it and my schedule. I posted a curved top niche .3ds in FP10/11 forum about a year ago.
Doug,
I was able to easily make a niche with window as Sven was looking for, without using other software, but it has raised a number of issues / enhancements required. Before I list them as Feature Requests, you (or anyone) may like to double-check that I have not missed something.
I used a wall, inserted a window, elevated the wall (window stays in place) and reduced the wall height to the top of the window - hence a 'floating' window with no wall. Then I used the Interior Accessories/Decorative/Custom Member (nicely hidden) to make the angled edges, sill etc for the niche. The idea then was to export it as a 3DS and import into Windows that would then cut the hole in the wall and insert the niche window and all finised, BUT...
1. Positioning the pieces of the Custom Member was not very easy. Using Nudge you could move in 1mm increments but the bright blue lines around each Customom Member meant you could not see exactly where the others were, only the one you are moving (which shows up green inside the blue outline). Do you get this? I could not find a way to turn the blue lines off.
2. Save as 3DS worked fine but it exported the Terrain (Ground Plane) also! V11 and previous did not do that. Needless to say you do not want another Terrain in the import. Tried unsuccessfully to turn it off, make it transparent, make it tiny in size but all failed. Unless this can be resolved then 3DS export is virtually useless. Could presumably remove the Terrain in CAD software but that does not help those who do not have it and adds unnecessary work. Have you been able to export without the Terrain? If so, how is it done?
3. I could not find any way to import it into the Windows section so it would cut the hole in the wall as in previous versions. 3DS only seems to work into accessories and fittings not structural. Have you found a way to do this?
Sven - I will post the object (when I have removed the Terrain) but it is too late now. I have a new PC and have to reinstall TurboCAD to remove the Terrain - unless someone else comes up with a solution to these issues.
Allan
Not sure I followed all your steps in 1., did not try to duplicate, never remember seeing blue lines except for selected objects??? maybe a pic would help or if I tried to duplicate your approach....but I have no need now for a niche. Usually its far easier for me to create a .3ds model in another program such as Carrara or Hexagon....both from DAZ3D.com
I have exported objects as .3ds and terrain came along too...always thought I'd go back and try to select object only as export and or delete terrain before export....But just tried it and no luck. Smallest I could make terrain was 10'x10'. Saved as .3ds and would have to delete terrain in other program...easy to do.
But I agree terrain should NOT export and request for that change would be good.
I have not tried a niche in TFP12 and only used .3ds imported niche in FP10/11 as "furniture" to maximize flexibility of use. I'd point a link to the FP forum but I understand all images have been deleted and I doubt I still have the .jpg example pics any more. Someone else was able to make a .3ds work as part of a wall in FP11...I think; would have to search FP forum. But I've only done the one niche once.
Also "members" are much more capable in Envisioneer and extremely limited in TFP12.
doing this terrain work
http://forum.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,248.new.html#new
Made me think to solve the export of objects from TFP and not have the terrain included....and it works...
Use view filter and "turn off" visibility of the terrain....then when you export, the terrain is not exported as part of the mesh.
I suspect this will be true for any objects...not seen = not exported.
Attached is .3ds of TFP12 sofa, without the terrain....this file was not changed to delete the terrain mesh, it is exactly as exported from TFP12.
Note the mesh has no material,,,,but TFP12 also saves the material as a .jpg along with (same folder) the exported 3D model
Doug,
Thanks for the tip re setting visibility of the Terrain - I did not think of trying that.
I sorted the blue line - On the Appearance tab is a Linestyle selector, Click the line, and doubleclick the next one and you can change the colour and thickness. So I have set it to thin grey. Makes it easier but still a bit thick. Another well hidden feature!
Sven,
The niche window was easy to make - only took a few minutes. I have deleted the Terrain and attached it in case it is suitable. You can adjust the width but you may want to try making it yourself if this is not like the window you are trying to replicate.
1. Choose a window that is close to what you want and insert it in a new Project
2. Put it in a section of wall 500mm thick (or whatever your wall is) and move it right to one end.
3. Drag the other end of the wall so it is right up against the window.
4. Right click the wall and set the elevate to whatever the window is off the floor.
5. Select Properties and set the wall height to the top of the window (Location head height)
You now had a free standing window. Now you can use the Interior Accessories/ Decorative/Custom Member to make the sloping bits of the recess.
6. Resize the Custom Member to the depth of the wall, height of the window and 1mm thick.
7. Rotate it to the angle you want.
8. Right click and Duplicate. Rotate the second one the other way for the other side.
9. Right click and elevate both to the same height as the window.
10. Set the Nudge to 1mm and use the arrow keys to move the angled sides right up to the Window.
11. Duplicate both again to make square sides to go into the wall
12. Duplicate again and make these about half the width to fill in the gap that will be on the inside (so you have created a triangular shape at each side of your window) You could also use a triangular 3DS I have posted previously for the two sides.
13. Duplicate another two and resize as the top and bottom.
14. Make sure any sections that you want to make a different texture are set accordingly. They can be changed later then when necessary
15. As Doug mentioned above turn off the visibility of the Terrain and you can then export your window as a 3DS file.
16. Import the window again and you can use it repeatedly thereafter BUT... in previous versions you could save it into the Windows category and it would then automatically cut a hole in the wall. You will have to cut the hole yourself using one of the Openings set to the size and height of your new window. Turn off Collision Detection (Status bar) and you can move the window into the wall and use the Nudge to line it up precisely.
I have attached an image to show how it can look and the file I created for you to look at and the BLD file so you can see how it was made.
Hope that makes some sense - ask again if it doesn't. Sounds messy to read but once you get the idea it is very quick and for me much quicker that trying to do it from scratch in a CAD program.
Allan
"Someone else was able to make a .3ds work as part of a wall in FP11...I think"
Um, that might be me...
I made my own 3DS doors, windows etc, also a 'blank window' niche...
IIRC, windows and niches were not too problematic. Doors were *hard*. I had to ensure all holes were blocked to make a door work-- Even a keyhole left without a 'transparent' shutter snarled the topology...
And I never did learn how to make them compatible with FP's 'door angle' wizard...
Hi Nik,
Unfortunately V12 does not work the same in this regard. It is possible to import any 3DS files (or DXF and Sketch-UP) but you cannot import them into windows or doors so they do not cut the hole. You have to make a hole for them. At least the holes in walls work better than earlier versions - there are many more preset ones and all very flexible. The ability to export as 3DS is excellent, as it is easy to push things together to make another object, then save as 3DS and import as one object - works well now that I know how to stop the Terrain coming with it!!! Avoids having to run other CAD software to convert it. Lights don't take on the lighting characteristics either although I seem to recall a comment somewhere that this is being/has been fixed ready for a patch
Allan
Thanks, Allan !
So, TFP can only import to 'prop' categories, never as an 'active' ??
Um, unfortunately, *ALL* my project's doors, windows and fire-places are custom imports. And, many of my imports have *very* complicated wall-cutouts, integral quoins etc.
To be polite, I had had quite enough of placing openings then aligning objects within objects within objects. Why else go to trouble of wrangling FP doors ??
I'm sorry: Without 'opening' imports or an FP plan-reader, I'd waste my time and money upgrading to TFP_12.0...
Better to learn now, I suppose !!
Nik,
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news! Actually in so many ways TFP is much better and more flexible. Doors for instance have many different styles and come complete with knobs. Most things are flipable and automatically replacable with a different object. Kitchen cupboards are as decorative as you like and the range of textures is huge - and you can apply a gloss or brightness to them, to any degree you want. Photoborads mean you can introduce photos of your own objects into the scene - even your favourite tree, pet or person and they become part of it. The rotate to face the camera so you dont see their edge or back. But... 3DS cut outs are not there yet (or I have not found how to do it) and neither is the option to import V11 files (yet).
Allan
Hi,
How flexible are the windows? - i.e. different width panels both horizontally and vertically, and different number of panels in each section.
See attached picture of window which is common in 2-bed terraced UK houses. (Wider Side opener and narrower fixed panel, with small top opener above.) In FPv8 I created this by exporting 3 different sized windows as DXF to TurboCAD Designer (bundled with v8), mixed and matched the panels to produce the window I wanted, saved as 3DS, then imported back as a Custom Window.
Anything could be inserted as a window!
So obviously v12 must either be able to produce this window directly, or allow 3DS import to windows. May be there's a hidden Ctrl 'Add New' type procedure somewhere?
Howdy Steve!
If I understand your question, you want to know how to add an object that you have drawn outside of TFP whose properties reside in a .dxf type file. To do this, click File/Import/Object_Wizard and follow the instructions. Be sure to select the correct file type (.dxf).
If you look in Help and key "import object" into the search panel, it will give you better instructions.
Hope this helps.
rh
Hi rh,
Sorry you have misunderstood me - I don't have TFP - I want to know if TFP can create the Window show without needing to import a 3DS/DXF file.
If TFP can't do this directly, I assume from what I've read that althougth you can import 3DS/DXF objects (in the way you quoted), you can't do this into the Windows category.
Quote from: Steve Clarke on December 15, 2007, 06:55:04 PM
Hi,
How flexible are the windows? - i.e. different width panels both horizontally and vertically, and different number of panels in each section.
See attached picture of window which is common in 2-bed terraced UK houses. (Wider Side opener and narrower fixed panel, with small top opener above.) In FPv8 I created this by exporting 3 different sized windows as DXF to TurboCAD Designer (bundled with v8), mixed and matched the panels to produce the window I wanted, saved as 3DS, then imported back as a Custom Window.
Anything could be inserted as a window!
So obviously v12 must either be able to produce this window directly, or allow 3DS import to windows. May be there's a hidden Ctrl 'Add New' type procedure somewhere?
This is down in TFP whitout 3ds is it some near what you think /
robert
Robert,
I had just done a similar image to illustrate to Steve - you just beat me to it. Isn't time strange - you did yours at 7.30am and I did mine at 11.30 pm on the same day, yet we did them at the same time!!
Steve,
As Robert has illustrated the windows are VERY flexible. Everything can be changed as far as I can see- not just the main window and its panes but you can add totally flexible side windows on all sides if you want. (see two of the dialogs below)
Nik,
I would be very surprised if you can not do all you want to also (in your mediaevalish way). I am not sure what your doors etc are like but the one in the illustration was done in about 1 minute. Everything can be changed - the arch can even be higher on one side than the other if you want.
Allan
Thanks Robert and Allan,
That certainly looks far more flexible than the symmetrical only windows in FP11.
(and is was 2.30pm here in UK!)
Steve,
It is definitely more flexible - everthing is. For example, walls can have sloped bottoms and sloped tops, you can set the thickness after insertion. You can just right click and drag a straight wall to a curve - could not be easier! You can even set the type of framing inside the walls, wood, metal even the shape of the metal profile. Ceilings and floors can inserted by room (inside of walls), perimeter (outside of walls) or just draw the shape you want. The roof also is by the perimeter or just pick the points to shape it however you want or insert and drag it where you want in 3D.
Nik
If you need any round walls in your project - No Problem! Notice too this is an arched door in a curved wall.
Allan
Er, WOW, Allan !!
That's a straight door in a round tower !!
Just a clarification: Do such doors still behave when wall is eg 24 or 36 inches thick ??
---
As several TFP users have said, TFP has a different way of doing stuff, gotta UN-LEARN so many 'Classic' FP techniques and work-arounds...
D'uh, upside of *having* to create my own 'custom' doors was that I could add 'Period Detail' like iron straps, key-holes, handles, bolt-heads and such, and the model would work as-is in eg Poser...
Ah, well, TFP may be limited to flat door plus custom texture-- But probably can't handle layers, alpha channel or 'bump maps' to make a flat surface play 'Trompe D'oeil' (Trick The Eye).
I've posted a request for 'active' imports in the wish-list sub-forum.
---
Hmm... Can Envisioneer import eg 3DS to 'active' = 'wall-cutting' categories ?? If not, I don't think we can expect it of TFP. D'uh, certainly not soon...
Hmm, neither Envisioneer not TFP have equivalent of later FP's 'BMO' models, do they ? That's sad, as such might offer a way to mod 'action' flags without contravening EULA by hacking database...
Allan,
Thank you for your extensive reply, most appreciated!
Sven
Sven,
I am glad it helped!
Quote from: Nik on December 17, 2007, 08:12:08 AM
Just a clarification: Do such doors still behave when wall is eg 24 or 36 inches thick ??
---
As several TFP users have said, TFP has a different way of doing stuff, gotta UN-LEARN so many 'Classic' FP techniques and work-arounds...
Nik,
TFP does not seem to care about wall thickness. The image below is 2 metes thick (about 7ft). The only limitation seems to be that the door or window has to be wider than the thickness of the wall otherwise it will put the door or window on the outer side of the wall. If it is slightly wider it will put it on the inside. Openings are OK they can be any size. Incidentally Opening come in myriad of shames and sizes and are all customisable, as it is the trim of windows and doors too.
There is not much re-learning to do. Just a couple of basics. I had two new people (with very little V10 experience) working with me on a project last weekend and both produced a whole complex building with little input from me! Their projects and mine all without any workarounds. The only workarounds I have come across is in the lighting area to circumvent a couple of minor bugs.
Don't know about Envisioneer - will leave that to someone who does.
Allan
Quote from: Nik on December 17, 2007, 08:12:08 AM
As several TFP users have said, TFP has a different way of doing stuff, gotta UN-LEARN so many 'Classic' FP techniques and work-arounds...
D'uh, upside of *having* to create my own 'custom' doors was that I could add 'Period Detail' like iron straps, key-holes, handles, bolt-heads and such, and the model would work as-is in eg Poser...
Ah, well, TFP may be limited to flat door plus custom texture-- But probably can't handle layers, alpha channel or 'bump maps' to make a flat surface play 'Trompe D'oeil' (Trick The Eye).
Hmm, neither Envisioneer not TFP have equivalent of later FP's 'BMO' models, do they ? That's sad, as such might offer a way to mod 'action' flags without contravening EULA by hacking database...
Here are my views to answer your questions
- not much to "un-learn", but many things are done a bit differently...most better but some feel odd at first but no big learning obstacles and learning curve quite fast if you know FP or another 3D program
- yes, you can quite easily use TFP in a mode similar to Poser...place objects in an architectural "scene" and you can rotate objects in 3D and position texture maps with more control
- correct: no layers, alpha channels or bump maps....but there are some controls for transparency, reflection, luminance, and nearby color mix....and you can use "magenta" in a texture .bmp map and it renders as transparent
- there is a semi-equivalent to .bmo because you can export any item as .3ds, .dxf etc but re-importing is like any .3ds object. And lights don't import as lights...but easy work-around to place an invisible light source anywhere...But even with lots of light source type choices, all seem to be very bright even at 5% of 5 watts....near the very minimum possible settings
- and ability to import Sketchup files is great since Sketchup has a free version and models easy to make or find in Google SU model database.