Hoping someone has some suggestions I could try.....
I can perform rendering static images just fine. I can create non-rendered animations just fine. But when I try to create a Rendered Animation, the program gets as far as calculating the radiosity and then moves on to the Ray Tracing - at this point I get the 'Turbofloorplan has stopped working, Windows will now close .......yadayada.... box pop up. The only option being to close the program.
I have tried removing and recreating the animation paths, differing resolutions, differing FPS, differing video compression (including, of course, none), differing radiosity levels, differing anti-aliasing levels.
I'm not a violent person, but right now, a fist through the monitor is looking a pretty attractive option!! ;D
Running a Core i5, 4GB RAM, 6TB storage. TFP is the only program running.
Yours,
frustrated in Northumberland,
Phil
Hi Phil,
Couple of questions first:
You said you can render static images OK - Basic Render or Advanced? Or both?
Does either of these also crash?
Have you tried File / Repair Project?
Crashes are usually caused my a corruption in the model - most frequently badly joined walls. Have you checked then?
What version of TFP are you using?
Apparently striking the monitor does not work - although I have not tried it myself. It is reported to cause instant euphoria but is soon followed by severe depression, that they say is worse than the original problem! I am told it is expensive to reverse this attempted solution too, so I personally would not recommend it! ;D
Lets see how we go with the above answers and if that does not help maybe you can email the file to me to have a look at.
Allan
Hi Phil,
Did you try to create an animation with very small project (say just four walls and a roof)?
If it works, try to create an animation with one of the sample projects included with your program
If it works only in the first case, then it is a video card issue
Pat
Hi guys,
thanks for the responses.
Alan,
I can render static images, both basic & advanced, they both work (although basic render has frozen on me a couple of times.)
Already tried repairing the project, with no joy.
Walls all seem OK.
Using TFP 16.
Pat,
Even very simple animation crashes the program. (4 walls)
Graphics card is an ATI HD4650, with the latest Catalyst drivers.
HTH.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kczwb4miu7fl767/OG%20Cine%20Build.bld (https://www.dropbox.com/s/kczwb4miu7fl767/OG%20Cine%20Build.bld)
MudMover
Allan :
Can I make a suggestion ? I tried using animation with a couple of my designs, but it took forever, and the file size was huge. So, what I did, I made a slide show of the rendered pictures, and made it into video format. I did a post of a couple of me vids....with the links.
garystan
Hi Garystan,
thanks for the suggestion, but I'd really like to be able to 'fly' through and around my model. I don't mind it taking a while to create, and I have plenty of space available storage wise. I'm just frustrated that the program doesn't work! Particularly after the effort I've been through to model our extension in the first place!
Cheers,
Phil
....just tried turning off Hardware Acceleration, with absolutely no difference.
Just to be clear, the crash occurs as soon as the radiosity calculations have been completed and the dialogue box switches from 'Generating Radiosity Solution' to 'RayTracing Image'.
HTH
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/1452/tfpcrash.jpg)
Hi Phil,
Quote from: MudMover on April 25, 2013, 09:41:24 AM
basic render has frozen on me a couple of times.
This comment concerns me. You said before that the radiosity is OK but the crash happens on the raytrace segment. Basic is raytrace only, so it looks like your static Basic render freezes have returned.
If, as you said to Pat, it crashes on a simple model, it could be the video card issue but I will leave Pat to help with that as he knows what he is doing in that area and I don't.
If the video card is not the issue then I would still be a bit concerned about a wall or other corruption that is causing the raytrace section of the animation to fail. It may be worth rendering the animation with the walls turned off. If that works then there is a corruption in the walls somewhere. If it still fails then the walls are OK. All you can do then is turn off other element groups and progressively identify where the corruption is. If you want to send it through to me I can check it out (alches AT iinet DOT net DOT au) or post it here if it is not too big.
Allan
Hi again Allan,
Just checked, and the Basic render is working fine. It was a week or so ago that it froze on me, and even then didn't produce any 'Windows Message', it just sort of stopped!
The link in one of my posts above (The Dropbox one) should be the '.bld' file - not used Dropbox in this before, so let me know if it doesn't work. Many thanks for taking a look.
Cheers,
Phil
Further testing.
Walls Off - Doesn't Crash! - Hurrah! - But still doesn't work! - Booo!!
HW Acceleration on or off doesn't make a difference. Video is totally corrupt. It plays, sort of. But nothing useful visible - see screenshot!
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2861/tfpuuugh.jpg)
Getting a bit fed up now. Going to look at the walls myself, but can't understand why my static renders work just fine!
Hi Phil,
What do you have as the time of day? If it is night and you do not have lighs inserted it could explain the video. There is a tick box for 'use current time' which does catch some out, as overrides the time setting.
I have downloaded your file - will have a look at it tomorrow (2am here at the moment so a bit late to start now ;) )
Allan
Hi again Allan,
Time is set to 08:15 in the morning. I've tried it with current time too. No change. :(
02:00 in the morning! I remember it well, trying to get to sleep in Oz with my body clock wanting to keep going!
I think I'm going to have to leave it for now too anyway, I need to get other stuff done.
Many thanks,
Phil
OK, one last try. Walls back on and Ray Tracing crash does not re-appear, but the video is still a garble pile of rubbish. All jumbled and green. Thought the green might have come from the terrain being set to grass, so changed that to a dark grey - and the video produced is a grey jumble now - bizarre, as the Terrain isn't even visible for the most part of the animation. Something really screwy with 3DRealView.
I give up.
Are IMSI going to produce a V17 anytime soon? Something with a working rendering engine perhaps?
Hi Phil,
I'd suggest these steps (it is a routine maintenance)
1 - Check the website of your video card manufacturer and update the drivers (I know that you mentioned that your drivers are updated, but, just in case, check again)
2 - Right click on the wallpaper (look for a place without icons)--> Properties--> Settings--> Advanced--> Open GL--> Compatibility Settings--> Force 16 bits--> Apply--> OK
3 - Set your video color depth at 24 or 32 bits ("true color")
4 - Go to www.microsoft.com/directx, and see what version is current and check if you have this version installed in your computer
5 - If the problem persists--> change the color settings to 16 bit
6 - Run Malwarebytes http://www.malwarebytes.org/ and Spybot http://www.safer-networking.org/index2.html (yes, run both, they are free). They use to find different things
Let us know about the results
Pat
Hi Phil,
Well I have started to look at you model and came across some odd things:
1. The program crashes when I try to open it in TFP V16 - says it was produced in a later version! There has only been one version of V16 (no updates officially released) and V17 has not been releasaed yet either. What is our full version number? (Help / About)
2. I opened the file in Envisioneer 8.2 (which is a later version - effectively TFP V17.2 but not yet released) and it opened OK and rendered stills OK.
3. Is the file in Dropbox the one you are using? I ask this as there are a number of things different from you comments in the forum.
4. The time was set to 11:15pm which in Australia would be very dark but maybe not in Edinborough in June (I was there once at that time of the year and could not get to sleep!!!)
5. Daylight was turned off.
6. Size was set to very high definition. Would still work but would take ages and probably stretch the computer resources somewhat. I always test anything first at very low image size.
7. The file did not have an animation path.
In view of the above, are you sure you uploaded the correct file?
Anyway I have set the daylight on and that time to 11:15AM, created an animation path and reduced the image size to 640x480. The animation is being created now and the preview is coming out really well. It is only about 1/6th of the way through at present so I am going to leave it running and see what it is like in the morning (well - later in the morning, 12:45 am at present here.) I am determined not to make tonight as late as last night ;D so I will let you know later how it came out (should have set a very short path! ::) ) but so far is looking very good - no crash and normal colours. But - is it the right file?
EDIT 6am: Well the video completed and created an AVI file of 12MB and which runs for 24 seconds (500KB per second) and it is fine. Some walls/floors of the model are white but that is because I do not have some of the textures you have used - replace the textures and the animation would be pertfectly acceptable, even at 640 x 480.
Can you just confirm that the file on Dropbox is the correct one?
Allan
Quote from: Pat on April 25, 2013, 03:33:18 PM
Hi Phil,
I'd suggest these steps (it is a routine maintenance)
1 - Check the website of your video card manufacturer and update the drivers (I know that you mentioned that your drivers are updated, but, just in case, check again)
Done.
Quote
2 - Right click on the wallpaper (look for a place without icons)--> Properties--> Settings--> Advanced--> Open GL--> Compatibility Settings--> Force 16 bits--> Apply--> OK
These settings aren't available in Windows 7. OpenGL, as far as I'm aware isn't supported (officially), only DirectX.
Quote
3 - Set your video color depth at 24 or 32 bits ("true color")
There are no options to do this in W7 either.
Quote
4 - Go to www.microsoft.com/directx, and see what version is current and check if you have this version installed in your computer
DirectX V11, as included with Windows 7, updates are done through Windows Updates (which I have set to install automatically.)
Quote
5 - If the problem persists--> change the color settings to 16 bit
As before, there is no option to alter the bit-depth of the graphics card.
Quote
6 - Run Malwarebytes http://www.malwarebytes.org/ and Spybot http://www.safer-networking.org/index2.html (yes, run both, they are free). They use to find different things
Malwarebytes I use regularly, and did again, just to make sure. Spybot, I hadn't come across - I usually use Adaware from Lavasoft, but still gave it a go. MWB found nothing, SB found a few tracking cookies, and a few registry changes, but nothing malicious.
I then made the mistake of asking it to clean up!
Quote
Let us know about the results
Pat
This was first thing yesterday morning. I did nothing else, but then ran TFP - and my project opened, but the catalogue resolutely didn't! This meant most buttons weren't available to me. I tried manually opening the catalogue several times and still no joy. I couldn't spend all day on it, so have left it (accounts to do!) I plan on doing a clean install of TFP tomorrow to see if that works. I've only recently (last 4 weeks) re-installed W7 from scratch, so the machine itself is pretty clean and unclogged with other stuff as yet.
I'll have to see how much time the kids let me have, but should find time to take another look in the next 24 hrs.
Thanks for the help anyway.
Cheers,
Phil
Quote from: Allan Chesney on April 26, 2013, 10:59:30 AM
Hi Phil,
Well I have started to look at you model and came across some odd things:
1. The program crashes when I try to open it in TFP V16 - says it was produced in a later version! There has only been one version of V16 (no updates officially released) and V17 has not been releasaed yet either. What is our full version number? (Help / About)
Yep, Version 16, although I note it is slightly later than the one in your sig being 16.0.C1.950, yours is ....901 I believe. Different market perhaps?
Quote
2. I opened the file in Envisioneer 8.2 (which is a later version - effectively TFP V17.2 but not yet released) and it opened OK and rendered stills OK.
3. Is the file in Dropbox the one you are using? I ask this as there are a number of things different from you comments in the forum.
4. The time was set to 11:15pm which in Australia would be very dark but maybe not in Edinborough in June (I was there once at that time of the year and could not get to sleep!!!)
5. Daylight was turned off.
6. Size was set to very high definition. Would still work but would take ages and probably stretch the computer resources somewhat. I always test anything first at very low image size.
7. The file did not have an animation path.
In view of the above, are you sure you uploaded the correct file?
Yes, it's the correct version. I was trying all sorts to get it to work, and at all times of day. As the dropbox file is the 'live' version, it will simply have been what I was doing at the point you downloaded it (I have Autosave set to run every 30 minutes). The large version I had it set to was to simply get at least a few images to show my wife. (I think the resolution then was set to 1920x1080 so I could display them on an HD TV.) For the video, I originally was going for 640 x 480, but, like you, when I realised things were not going well, went for much smaller sizes (down to 150x100 even for a while!) Oh, I took the animation path out, as I couldn't find a way of making it invisible - there was nothing in the view filter that I could see - and my static renders were showing the blue box control points.
Quote
Anyway I have set the daylight on and that time to 11:15AM, created an animation path and reduced the image size to 640x480. The animation is being created now and the preview is coming out really well. It is only about 1/6th of the way through at present so I am going to leave it running and see what it is like in the morning (well - later in the morning, 12:45 am at present here.) I am determined not to make tonight as late as last night ;D so I will let you know later how it came out (should have set a very short path! ::) ) but so far is looking very good - no crash and normal colours. But - is it the right file?
EDIT 6am: Well the video completed and created an AVI file of 12MB and which runs for 24 seconds (500KB per second) and it is fine. Some walls/floors of the model are white but that is because I do not have some of the textures you have used - replace the textures and the animation would be pertfectly acceptable, even at 640 x 480.
Can you just confirm that the file on Dropbox is the correct one?
Allan
It's great that the file will actually render as an animation. As I've mentioned to Pat, I'm going to go for a clean install of TFP when I get the chance tomorrow - I think this is the only way I can guarantee it working - or at least as close to a guarantee as I'm likely to get!
Many thanks for your input again Allan, as with Pat, it's very much appreciated.
...the saga continues!
Before going down the route of re-installing TFP.....
I copied over my working file to my laptop (that doesn't get much use since the advent of the iPad) that has a working copy of TFP 16 on it. The program just crashed when simply trying to open my .bld file. Some sort of runtime error, and dumped me back to the desktop.
So, I copied over the Laptop's copy of the master metric catalogue to my desktop (renaming the desktop version 1st) and tried to open up my .bld file on the desktop. The file opened. I then loaded the metric catalogue. Success. Sort of.
I now cannot select any object/element in any 3D view, although selection does work in the 2D plan view......... apart from Animation Paths!! Whilst I can create an animation path, there is no way to select it. Clicking on it, or dragging a box around it, makes no difference, it cannot be selected. I've been into the View Filter and enabled Everything Selectable (on every Tab) and still no joy. This means there is no way to delete the paths, once created, and no way to change the viewing target etc.
I'm a bit nervous about doing a clean re-install, particularly after the results when trying to use my laptops copy of TFP. So, I've printed out a plan of my design with all exterior and interior measurements, so I can at least start again from scratch if needed and accelerate my 'build'.
TFP has now been uninstalled, and I'm downloading a fresh copy from the link in this post http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,2174.0.html (http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,2174.0.html)
Fingers Crossed!
OK, false start 1.
Uninstalled, then re-installed TFP. Didn't follow best practice, so didn't bother with a restart of the computer (being lazy) and strangely enough had similar issues to above.
Program crashed, as per laptop, when loading my project.
(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/983/grrrrs.jpg)
Tried a basic 4 wall design. It worked, but wouldn't render (animation wise), and other strange goings on; still couldn't select/edit/delete animation path. Also noticed, can't select end of walls to extend either - have to right click then select 'extend'. So functionality somewhat impaired.
(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4549/nolengthen.jpg)
Note the cursor is hovering over the Red end of the wall - just doesn't show on the screen grab.
Attempt 2.
Uninstalled again. Ran CCleaner to clear out left-over registry stuff. Re-started computer.
Installed TFP.
Tried basic 4 wall design. It works! Ray-traced animation anyway.
Bizarrely though, still can't select animation path, or ends of walls to extend etc.
My own project still crashes the program on loading, as above.
What to do now then?
Also, strangely, the program/install routine hasn't asked me for my activation code (serial yes, activation no) so despite CCleaner and restarts there is obviously some information being retained on the computer.
Running out of ideas now.
Hi Phil,
Maybe the laptop was the same build as mine - a fraction earlier than your desktop one. What is the version number on the new installation? Is it an earlier version like mine is also and hence the crash problem?
Re the 'selecton' problem: have you tried with Hardware Acceleration OFF (or ON if it is off)? If it works with HA off, it could indicate a video card driver issue. Leaving it on and inching the video card driver acceleration back a fraction may fix it.
Animation paths can be turned on and off in View / Viewing Aids, or using the Cameras button on the View Control toolbar.
If you have to start again you can use your printed plans as a trace layer. Better still, if it is not too late, do a File Export as a 2D DXF file. This is easier to trace, always to scale and new walls traced over the DXF should snap to the corners of the DXF plan.
Allan
Hi Allan,
A bit of progress. Tried your suggestion of turning off hardware acceleration - and it worked, I could now select the animation path etc. again. So, a bit bemused, as I had this ability with hardware acceleration on with my earlier version (which seems to be a later version - but hey!) So, having checked that my computer was as up to date as possible I decided to downgrade my graphics driver, so uninstalled that, and allowed Windows to pick one (instead of using the latest ATI/AMD drivers from their site) - and it works! Functionality restored!
Still can't get my new install to play with my project at all, so I've lost that work it seems though :'( Unfortunately, didn't think of exporting it in a different format before this all happened.
I found the Animation Paths on/off selection just this morning - a function of me only using TFP when I have a project to do, so not overly familiar with its, hmmmm, nuances, shall we say!
I'm going to have a dig around on my various USB sticks etc. and see if I can find my later build again - it may just be I can get my project back - but I'm not holding my breath!
Again, thanks are due.
Cheers,
Phil
Hi Phil,
Good to hear you are getting somewhere!
I gather from the fact that the latest install still won't open your project, that the latest download is the earlier file. Maybe the original one you used for this project had problems (like crashes on animation rendering) so they reverted to the earlier one. Subsequently the problem was fixed, which is why it worked for me in Envisioneer. Just speculating - what is the build number on your latest install?
Allan
Hi again Allan,
well, we were getting somewhere! Just found my original TFP file TFP_PRO_16_UK_Setup.exe and installed that. It is the 16.0.C1.950 build (the one currently available for downloading from IMSI is 16.0.C3.901.)
Anyway, having re-installed the UK version - my project loads perfectly - but crashes during the animation render again! :-\
So, I think my only option is to export as a dxf file (at least now I have access to my project again, I should be able to do that), re-install the C3.901 build and keep my fingers crossed that nothing else is going to happen!
Getting tired now, so think I'd better leave it until tomorrow - I'm liable to make stupid mistakes in my current state.
Cheers,
Phil
Hi Phil,
Interesting, so there is a UK varient also - I had not heard of that before. I wonder what has been changed. There is an Australian one too but I have always used the one currently available for download, so that I am using the version used by the majority of users. The main difference with the Australian version is in the trees and plants in the catalogue which does not affect the program itself.
It is a shame that you have to start again on it but at least it is much quicker the second time around! (been there, done that! ::) ) It is a shame V 17 is not available as that would have been able to open your project.
Allan
Don't suppose there are any indicators of if/when V17 is due? It's not going to come in time for this project, but it would be nice to have something a little more reliable. (Seem to remember saying the same thing about V14 and V15!) :D
Will update progress tomorrow.
Cheers,
Phil
V17 is well overdue compared with previous releases, so in theory it could appear any day now. Previously a new version was released a couple of months after a new release of Envisioneer. It most now be about 9 months! New releases of Envisioneer are usually made around the middle of the year so I am be ginning to wonder now, if it may follow the next version of Envisioneer. There would be no point releasing it now and then another one is just a few months time.
As far as reliability goes, I personally have not had any issues at all with any of the versions and use it virtually every day. There are a few ideosyncrasies of course in how it does some things and a few things I would like to see introduced (such as copy and paste between projects) but I have always found it very stable and reliable. Most issues I have come across that others have had, invariably revolved around bad wall joins in the project. It would be nice if there was some way for the program to detect them as they occur.
Keep us posted how you go.
Allan
Hi Phil,
Just for the records
1 - yes, the features are available at Win7
2 - Lavasoft was a good antimalware program, before V10. Now, is an invitation to computer disasters, inlcuding interferences with some programs because Lavasoft considers these programs "dangerous" :-\
Pat
Hi Pat,
you are of course correct, OpenGL is still there, just not readily accessible (did a bit more rooting around after my assertion that it isn't supported!), in fact, so well hidden I haven't yet found any reference to it on my computer! I do know it's somewhere in there though, as there is reference to it on the OpenGL.org web-site...........I'm still looking :D
My right-clicking on the desktop doesn't bring up a properties option.....
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9482/rightclickp.jpg)
...again, it's one of those things that certainly used to be there, but W7 has changed it somewhat and hidden the settings away. After right-clicking, selecting 'Screen Resolution' and then selecting 'Advanced Settings' brings up the adapter and monitor properties dialogue. Strangely, you then have to click on the Monitor tab, to find the colour depth settings, with (for me) the only options then being 16 or 32 bit colour. (I obviously didn't find this the other evening!)
Whilst W7 has improved on many things, hiding access to settings away from users, and indeed putting them in pretty obscure places (for me, surely its the adapter providing a 16-bit colour depth, not the monitor creating it! So why put the setting in the Monitor tab?) has made troubleshooting/tweaking that much more difficult.
It's easy for me to criticise though, it's been nearly 30 years since I was a programmer for a living (6502 and Z80 based games for the ZX80/81/Spectrum and Acorn Atom/BBC Micro.) All this high level stuff leaves me cold. Generally happy to just be an end-user these days (when it works!)
Anyway Pat, I do really appreciate the help,
Many thanks again for your efforts,
Cheers,
Phil
Hi Phil,
I think that in Win 7 the display controls are easy to find --> in the screenshot that you posted --> please click on personalize to find the display controls
If you prefer, you can follow this --> Control Panel --> Control Panel Items --> Display --> Screen Resolution --> Advanced
I am also an ATI user, and I find that the Catalyst control panel has all the necessary tools. Did you check the settings in this CP?
Pat
(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/965/personalize.jpg)
Hi Pat,
selecting personalize takes me to the above selection window, which doesn't show anything useful re. card settings etc. It's just eye-candy. FWIR, previous windows incarnations just had a simple Display->Properties selection to make by right-clicking on the desktop - exactly as you alluded to earlier indeed! That, to me, was simple. Whilst the W7 selections may be accurate, I still don't find them useful! Such is progress!
The only settings I could find that had any relevance in the Catalyst CP, was one for triple-buffering for OpenGL. I tried it both selected and unselected, with no joy. There wasn't any way in the Catalyst CP of selecting colour depth as far as I could find. There were sections of the Catalyst CP that just reverted back to the start screen when selected - I'm guessing these options aren't available to my 'legacy card', so have no idea what was hidden there.
I've 'downgraded' back to the latest WHQL build which has cured my ailments in the .901 build of TFP, so I'll stick with that - but it does mean I no longer have the Catalyst CP available, so can't go rooting around any further.
Not just eye candy, it is where the controls are.
In the image you sent, look at the left side --> You will see "Display" --> click on this option --> the display screen will open --> the first option on the left is "Adjust Resolution" --> click on this option --> you will see the screen in the image attached --> click on "Advanced Options" (marked in red in the image attached)
You will find several tabs with different settings to update and adjust
If you find problems --> this is the path --> Control Panel\All Control Panel Items\Display\Screen Resolution
Pat
rt click on desktop and select "screen resolution"
in window that opens, click on "advanced settings" and look around each tab to get info/settings
Quote from: MudMover on April 29, 2013, 08:11:41 AM
...again, it's one of those things that certainly used to be there, but W7 has changed it somewhat and hidden the settings away. After right-clicking, selecting 'Screen Resolution' and then selecting 'Advanced Settings' brings up the adapter and monitor properties dialogue. Strangely, you then have to click on the Monitor tab, to find the colour depth settings, .......
Hi Pat, Doug,
yes, I get it! :D I posted the above in Reply 27, so I do know how to find the advanced settings, I was bemoaning the fact that it has been made more obscure in W7, that's all! :)
From this...
(http://learntech.uwe.ac.uk/Data/Sites/1/GalleryImages/prop.JPG)
to this...
(http://www.daanav.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Right-Click-Menu-of-Desktop-with-Extra-Menu-Items-Added.png)
'Screen Resolution', to my mind, is a very obscure way of directing someone to access the advanced properties dialogue of the graphics card, which is what I wanted. 'Properties' instantly points me in the right direction. IMO.
I think I'm just getting old and curmudgeonly :-[ - so ignore any of my whining as you see fit! ;D