Hello All,
I am trying out TurboFloorplan and when I view using the 3D Camera View, the image switches from the Rendered view to something like the Wireframe with what I think may be every surface shown as a outline, See attached screenshots. The plan is a very simple "house" using the House Plan Wizard with only outside walls and a tree (the included sample plans also have this problem but for troubshooting I created a much simpler house). The image reverts to a normal 3D image when any of the movement controls are used (Fly Around, etc.) It appears to change to the wireframe if I click anywhere on the 3D image. The normal image also comes back if I zoom out (one step) with the mouse scroll wheel. Has anyone else seen this problem or anyone know a solution?
Everthing else works fine, after I read the posts on 3D Real View Rendering. If the Advanced Render fails, I can move the camera and it has worked everytime.
I have an Athon X2 6000, 4GB DDR2 1066 RAM, Sapphire 512 MB Radeon 3650 PCI-E graphics on a Gigabyte GA-MA790GP with the AMD 790GX chipset running Windows XP Service Pack 3 and all updated drivers (as of today). The computer runs the FurMark Fuzzy doughnut Open GL benchmark without any problem, so hardware compatibility should be OK. I have played with a number of other home architect programs and I like everthing about this one except this one item.
Thanks,
Allen
Hi Allen, (great name!)
Welcome to the Forum.
Something like this was reported once previously http://forum.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,602.0.html (http://forum.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,602.0.html) and the user at the time seemed to have a related computer/graphics card, so I opened your model on my desktop (Nvidia Graphics and is still running V12.0 which yours is) - everthing worked normally for me! I then opened it on my laptop (Radeon Graphics) which has the update to V12.1 applied and it was normal also.
Of course none of these are exactly the same graphics cards and certainly not the same computer specs but it would indicate to me that the wireframe problem is related to the graphics rendering on computer itself, as everthing was normal for me. I don't think you can apply the update to the trial version but that may not help anyway, as my non-updated version was OK. The update (link at bottom of Forum) fixed a number of rendering / crashing issues including the 'move camera solution' you mentioned too I think.
Did you try turning off Hardware Acceleration? (Settings / Program Settings / Graphics). I noticed it was still on in your model. It does cause problems with some particular computers for some reason. HA is good for moving around but sometimes causes display problems. The previous enquirer did not reply, so I do not know if that fixed his problem. Worth a try - let us know if it worked.
Interestingly your wireframe view is not even the same as when I manually switch mine to wireframe (see image) - yours has many more facets. I do not know what that implies - presumably something to do with the way the PC is dealing with the graphics. Unfortunately I am not a computer technical person so can't offer any other suggestions. Hopefully some others can offer different solutions if the HA does not fix it.
Allan
Hello allencar,
I have had the exact same problem as you and I did what Allan suggested by turning off the hardware acceleration in TFP and now it works a bit slower but its normal rendered view.
Might I ask what graphics card you are using? I'm using ATI 9600XT 256MB.
Happy holidays!
Hello Allan and Ricardo,
Thank you for the quick reply. I thought I had tried turning the Hardware Acceleration off, but it looks like I got confused because that cured the problem. So I will turn off HA to actually work with the plan and select objects for modification; and then if I want to reposition the camera and fly around I will use HA because the image moves around smoothly and fast.
I also noticed that the image was not exactly like the wireframe, that is why I added "Somewhat Like". My guess is that each closed shape represents a surface in the 3D image, but a lot of them are normally hidden behind the outer layers.
Ricardo,
My graphics card is a Sapphire 512 MB Radeon 3650 PCI-E graphics.
Thank you,
Allen
Hi Allen,
I am glad that fixed the problem for you. We have asked for a simple HA on/off switch on the Status Bar (like the Collision one) so we are hoping that may be in the next version.
A new version of Envisioneer has already been advertised in a magazine, although not on their website yet, so hopefully a new TFP will follow shortly after its eventual release.
Allan
Ah yes the reason I asked for you're graphics card is because a friend of mine is using Nvidia's GeForce and he has no problems with it and he said ATI put some updates for drivers(he mentioned something with Catalyst Control Center) into circulation about a month ago which you cant turn of or on, so that might be the cause of this problem.
So I wouldn't be surprised if more ATI users come across this problem.
I see this thread is OLD, but I am having the same situation. Yes, turning off hardware acceleration corrects the problem, but then WHY BOTHER having a decent video card. I specifically added the video card to the computer to improve 3D rendering. Video card is an HD 4550 with the latest ATI control center loaded. I had no problems with the Intel motherboard graphics. Definitely something about ATI catalyst drivers and Turbofloorplan (Kitchens and Baths in this case). Any kind of movement in the model will "solidify" the objects but if you stop moving and bump the mouse cursor then the display reverts to wireframe. So far, no option I have tried in the catalyst control center has any effect on the problem.
Hi, Welcome to the forum.
Sorry to hear you are having trouble with Hardware Acceleration. It seems that various combinations of video cards, drivers and PC combinations cause the problem and with some very different effects for different machines. I have a desktop with Nvidia card and a laptop with ATI but the latter is 3 years old now and no sign of a control centre that I am aware of (haven't needed to look for one). TFP works beautifully on both with HA enabled all the time.
I have been thinking of getting a new laptop but the few experiences in this post may make me think twice about laptops with ATI cards, lest I run into the same issues. I had them years ago with a previous PC and it was a real pain. I know how you feel!
I am not a technical person so I'm afraid I can't make any other suggestions unfortunately.
Allan
Is this forum monitored by the vendor or is this a user only forum? I have seen other applications which the ATI drivers effected... Does anyone know if the 3D rendering is done via the OpenGL interface?
The forum is a user forum although Dave Taylor the TFP Product Manager at IMSI pops in occasionally.
You could use Messages in the top menu of the Forum to contact him personally - he may have more information.
Another option would be to ask the question on the Envisioneer forum. It is the parent program and the 3D part is identical. Envisioneer and their forum is part of Cadsoft who are the originators of both programs, so they would likely have answers if anyone does. It is a very active forum and you would likely get a quick response. Cadsoft also have a lot of direct input.
Allan
Much abliged for the leads....
Hi there!
I know this topic is an old one but I have just bought a new computer and have been suffering from the same problem as this (really annoying when I want to add textures with the paintbrush tool). I noticed that Allen mentioned an update that may fix the problem. Is anyone able to direct me to this? If not, does anyone know of any other solutions?
I've tried turning off the Hardware Acceleration and whilst this works, it makes moving around in 3D view extremely slow!
Thanks in advance
Luke
I will follow up with CADsoft as with some of the newer ATI cards there were some problems reported and I believe Cadsoft was working directly with ATI for optimization.
I have an older ATI card on my home system and have never had these problems.
Also even if you have purchased a new system you should still look for an updated driver as the system or card may have been built prior to ATI
releasing an update for that card.
Hi there,
I didn't experience this problem with TFP using my main computer (with ATI Radeon HD 2600), however, I encountered some issues with graphic programs using my second computer (with Nvidia card)
You can try these steps, they helped in my case
1 - Check the website of your video card manufacturer and update the drivers
2 - Right click on the wallpaper (look for a place without icons)--> Properties--> Settings--> Advanced--> Open GL--> Compatibility Settings--> Force 16 bits--> Apply--> OK
3 - Set your video color depth at 24 or 32 bits ("true color")
4 - Go to www.microsoft.com/directx, and see what version is current and check if you have this version installed in your computer
5- Some NVidia cards show additional problems (in special the combination of Nvidia + Windows Vista)--> change the color settings from 32 bit to 16 bit
Hope this helps :)
Pat / Draftcad
Quote from: luke890 on November 20, 2009, 01:37:30 PM
I noticed that Allen mentioned an update that may fix the problem. Is anyone able to direct me to this? If not, does anyone know of any other solutions?
Hi Luke,
Hopefully some of the other suggestions will have helped.
There is a link to the update in the 'Patches and Updates' section at the bottom of the forum.
Welcome to the forum by the way!!
Allan
Hi Dave, Pat and Allan
First of all, thanks for your quick replies! Unfortunately, I'm still at a loss - I've tried updating drivers, changing colour settings, installing latest DirectX updates etc... but the problem still persists.
If it helps here's a bit of information about my system: I'm running Windows 7, video card is an ATI Radeon HD 4350, I have DirectX 11, Direct3D 8, OpenGL 6 and I'm currently using TurboFLOORPLAN Home & Landscape Pro v.12.
I've visited IMSI Design's website and noticed v.14 is suited for Windows 7 so I'm wondering whether the problem is with me trying to run v.12. Allan, will that update (thanks for directing me to it by the way) be able to upgrade my current version to v.14 or will I have to buy it separately? I'm more than happy to buy v.14 so long as I know I won't have the same problem as I'm currently having.
Thanks again everyone, any additional solutions are much appreciated!
Luke
Hi Luke,
I checked the Getting Started Guide for V12, and definitely Windows 7 is not listed in the System requirements (of course, W7 was released after the release of TFP V12 ). But I don't know if this can be an issue
But, just in case, try to run TFP V12 in compatibility mode
To do this--> Go to your desktop--> right click on the icon of the program--> properties--> compatibility--> I'd suggest that you set the compatibity with Win XP, as some video cards crash under Vista, so this is a "just in case" option
Also, a very important note--> the ATI Radeon HD 4350 video card is not compatible with Windows 7 and there are not drivers for this card under W7
http://www.diamondmm.com/4350PE512.php
Let us know about the results
Pat / Draftcad
There definitely are windows 7 drivers for a 4350 card http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx. I am using a 4350 card with XP and the 9.10 drivers without any wireframe problems. I am also using V14 so it could be a V12 thing or it could be a Win 7 thing.
Hi kanewolf
I don't think these drivers will work, because the 4350 is an ATI Diamond, and the drivers must be downloaded from http://www.diamondmm.com/4350PE512.php
I had 3 different ATI Radeon videocards. The first was an Ati Radeon by ATI, and I used the drivers from the ATI web site. The second was an ATI Radeon by Diamond (the worst of the 3 cards) and it worked just with the Diamond drivers. Currently I have an Ati Radeon by HIS and it works only with the HIS drivers. Just to be sure, I contacted the ATI support and they recommend the use of the drivers developed by the manufacturer of the card, because in the case of the Diamond, His, etc, they only provide the chip
Hope this helps
Pat / Draftcad
The reference drivers have never given me any problems, regardless of the brand of card. I actually don't even know what brand of card I have.... Looking back at Newegg e-mail, it is an MSI brand, I also have a Gigabyte brand 4550 with reference drivers only. Usually waiting for the original vendor to release drivers is slooooow. So, NVIDIA here we come? ;D
Hi kanewolf,
AMD is the manufacturer of the ATI products. They have (among other products) video cards, microprocessors and chips. If the video card is manufactured by ATI, then you have to use an ATI driver, but if you have a videocard manufactured by Diamond with an ATI chip (as the 4350 is) then you have to use the Diamond driver. Just as additional info, the 4350 is also manufactured by other companies as Tul, MSI, Visiontek, GeCube, etc
I work with graphics since 2001 and in my experience, Nividia is excellent for games and ATI is excellent for rendering. Of course, I repeat this is just my experience
Pat / Draftcad
Hi everyone
Thanks once again for your responses! Pat, I've tried running it in compatibility mode but to no avail. Also, I take on board what you've said about the my card not being compatible with W7, however this confuses me as I bought the computer new from Dell (it's an Inspiron 545), so I'd be quite annoyed if they sold me a computer which doesn't work with itself! If this can be fixed by a driver update then fair enough, but as you've pointed out there are none available from Diamond. However, I have found driver updates from ATI's website (as kanewolf also pointed out), which I've tried but haven't worked.
Maybe it is an issue with v.12 and W7. I'm currently in the process of downloading the v.14 trial so I'll let you know if I have any luck! If it doesn't work then at least we know it's the card that's problematic.
Thanks again everyone
Luke
Quote from: luke890 on November 22, 2009, 10:42:54 AM
Allan, will that update (thanks for directing me to it by the way) be able to upgrade my current version to v.14 or will I have to buy it separately? I'm more than happy to buy v.14 so long as I know I won't have the same problem as I'm currently having.
Hi Luke,
This was written just before your post but I will submit anyway as it may be still relevent even though you are using the Trail V14. That was a good move to prove the other issues you are having. What I started to say was:
Re your earlier upgrade question. The update /patches linked at the bottom of the forum only upgrade the relevent version - eg V14 will go from build 624 or 637 (depending which the user has) to 662. It will not upgrade V12 to V14 - that will have to be purchased but bear in mind that you should be able to get it for a special upgrade price which is very generous.
As to whether the change to the V14 is worth it, in my opinion it is. In that regard you may like to read this post http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,800.0.html (http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,800.0.html). Whether there and any issues with Windows 7 or not I can't personally say, as I do not have it yet. It is on my adgenda, as I got a free upgrade with a new laptop, but it is just a matter of getting around to do it and the hesitation caused by having to set things up again like I want them to work. Takes so long it puts me off.
I have seen only one negative comment so far about Windows 7 (http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,906.0.html (http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,906.0.html)) but I presume there are many who have no problems or I am sure there would have been more enquiries. Running in XP compatibility mode would presumably solve these issues anyway. If the issues you have had relate to the video card, then that is a separate issue. Incidentally we have asked in the past for a Hardware Acceleration toggle switch on the Status bar so you can just switch it on and off as with Collision etc.). Hopefully that will appear in V15 !
Allan
Quote from: luke890 on November 23, 2009, 08:04:56 AM
If this can be fixed by a driver update then fair enough, but as you've pointed out there are none available from Diamond. However, I have found driver updates from ATI's website (as kanewolf also pointed out), which I've tried but haven't worked.
Hi Luke,
That is correct. As I pointed in my answer to kanewolf, the driver for a videocard developed by Company XX doesn't work with the card developed by Company YY. The only thing they have in common is the ATI chipset, but the driver comands all the card, not only the chip.
Independently of the TFP problem, I'd suggest that you contact Diamond regarding the driver issue, because this will affect other features as videos, for example
Hello again all
I've just installed the v.14 trial - the good news: I no longer have the wireframe problem! Sucess! I think I will still contact Diamond anyway and ask about any updates for W7, as, like you said Pat, it could still affect other features in the future. But hopefully I won't have to hassle you good people for those solutions as TFP is running okay now!
However, there's a bit of bad news: basic rendering is causing TFP to crash everytime. Advanced rendering seems to be working fine though. I wonder if this is a bug with the program? I seem to remember a while back when I was first getting to grips with TFP and visiting this forum for tips (thanks Allan - I learnt A LOT from you!) that people had some rendering problems. I can't remember specifically as I never had such problems but I'm sure I've heard of a 'render bug' before. Could just be my machine again though I suppose!
Thanks again
Luke
Hi Luke,
I am really pleased to hear that V14 has solved your earlier issues - that's great.
Early reports of crashes during rendering were with Advanced render not Basic and were fixed with a patch soon after. I do not recall any previous reports of crashes with Basic render.
Issues could be the machine as you say, it could be something with Windows 7 as that is still new of course or it could be just an issue in the particular model, such as a corrupt wall. Normally one would expect such a problem to cause the crash in Advanced also but... Have you tried a new project with just 4 walls and a roof (just to eliminate any model issues)?
Allan
Hmmm, now that's interesting. I've just done as you've suggested and rather than crashing, it seems to have... well I'll just attach a screenshot so you can see for yourself! Advanced rendering still works fine, it just seems that basic is the problem!
Hi Luke,
first of all, glad to know that your solve the main problem.... so now, lets try to solve the next one ;D
Some suggestions
- V14 has patches--> http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,963.0.html --> try to download / install these updates and see if they solve the issue (probably, you just need is the 624 -662)
- To narrow the issue / solution--> try to move down the acceleration just one notch (or two) and see if it helps
- I know that this will sound odd but this happened in the computer of one of my Customers, crashing all the time :o --> download and run a good malware cleaner sw like Spybot or Malwarebyte's (both are free)
let us know about the results
Hello again
Pat, I tried your suggestions but unfortunately they didn't work for me. I also downloaded the patch but it looks like I can't apply it to the trial version. I am very close to purchasing the full version so I can apply the patch in the hope that it will resolve this problem once and for all - something I will have to sleep on I think, as I could just go back to using v12 with XP on my old computer, which worked flawlessly. Kind of defeats the object of buying a new computer, but hey!
With regard to the patch, I was wondering if anyone that has it up and running could tell me if it incorporates the "drop exterior face" option in 'wall properties' back into v14? I was disappointed to see it missing in the new version, as I'm currently working on a project that has a ground floor height of 600mm (instead of the default 305mm) and when I change the builing locations to match this, the building 'hovers'. In v12 I was always able to drop the exterior face of the walls so that they met with the terrain, however I can't seem to do this with v14. I hope the patch addresses this issue, or perhaps there's a 'work around' that I'm missing?
Thanks once again
Luke
Hi Luke,
Have a look in your trial V14 at Help/ About. What are the last 3 digits of the version number? If they are 662, then it includes the patch. If you choose to buy it and it is 624 or 637, then you will need to apply the appropriate patch after you enter the 'unlock' code. Incidentally I just received an email offer of 50% off on V14 (and other things) which is even cheaper than the upgrade price. Wonder if that means V15 is approaching?
Unfortunately the V14 patch does not restore the 'drop face'. I am hoping V15 will and have a specific request in for this to happen. It does not worry me particularly, as we usually work with 100mm concrete floors ,100mm about ground so the drop face for me goes 100mm below the terrain.
For your 600mm drop face requirement you could just use a thick slab with the edges set to the same texture or a foundation location with 300mm walls. Bit of extra messing around but should work. If you duplicate your ground floor walls to the mini foundation you should get perfect alignment.
Another option of course is to download a trail version of Envisioneer, create some walls with the drop faces you may need, export them as a BIM file and load the BIM into TFP, and you will then have the walls with the drop faces lengths you require.
Your Basic render example is odd - have not seen that before and can't think of a logical explanation i'm afraid. If you are like me you probably rarely use Basic render anyway, so hopefully it will not be too much of an issue for you.
Allan
Hi Allan
Yes the basic render problem is a bit odd, but like you I almost always use advanced anyway so it's not the end of the world. That alone certainly won't detract me from buying v14 as the switch has resolved my initial 'wireframe' issue, of which I am grateful. Incidentally the trial version I am using is 637, so perhaps the patch will sort out this problem if/when I decide to buy the full version. But for now, you may consider my problems solved!
It is a pity they've taken the 'drop face' option away though, but thank you for the work arounds - I will be sure to give them a try and see which works best. Fingers crossed that they take note of your request and implement it back into v15!
Once again, thank you to everyone who has sorted me out over the last few days, I will continue to design homes in your honour!
All the best
Luke