setting fence length and using dimensions

[jstranger]

I am sure that I am missing something obvious but I cannot find any way of setting the length of a fence. I have discovered how to lengthen it by dragging one end, and also how to measure it - but not how to display the length while dragging or how to set the length to a specified amount other than by trial and error. Surely it is possible to display the current dimensions of a selected element in the status area at the bottom of the page? But I cannot find any way of doing this.

Also I have tried to use Auto Apply Exterior Dimensions in my as yet still remarkably feeble attempt at drawing my garden (which is so far just a couple of fences and trees!) but nothing is displayed.

Jon

[Allan Chesney]

Jon,

Welcome to the Forum.

You should automatically get dimension on the fence.  Do you get them on walls?  If not, do you have Hardware Acceleration on?  (Settings/ Program Settings/ Graphics)  If so try turning it off.  Many PC/graphic cards combinations do not like HA and it can cause all sorts of problems.

Auto Exterior Dimensions only works on building walls I think. (they get in the way in my opinion).

To get approximate dimension you can turn the Grid on and set it to a specific dimension to suit your project. It is usefull as a guide.

Allan

[Doug.S]

Also, if its off (by default I think), turn on the "commander" which is the display and input for exact length and angle

see menu/settings/program settings/workspace/tool display/ put check in commander box to set it "on"

Commander shows at bottom of screen, see help file for more info on it and next items

Also watch for snap(s) ,  grid, ortho, and collision      on/off    at bottom right of screen

[jstranger]

Thank you both for your suggestions.

If I turn off hardware acceleration then the whole program behaves so oddly that it is unusable (locked dialog boxes, no project display  etc).

The problem is that I really don't know how the program should behave so can't tell whether something is missing or broken or is as intended. For example, I turned on the Commander (ridiculous name - hardly intuitive!) as suggested. It doesn't show anything if I just select an element, or even a point on an element, which seems a curious omission. If I select Lengthen then it does show Distance and Direction (although I am not sure what the latter has to do with a lengthen operation) - but only once I start to drag the end point and not if I just drag one end of the element without first selecting Lengthen (which seems to have the same effect as a Lengthen but is presumably just distorting it). And I am not interested in approximate dimensions, so the grid is out. So it appears that the only way of getting the length of my fence is to change its dimensions - which I cannot believe can be true! Surely any basic CAD program will report the dimensions of an object just by clicking on it?

I haven't even begun to start on the house - and I cannot imagine that I will unless I suddenly find that the program is a whole lot more usable than it currently appears.

Anyway, thanks for your help. I now just need to find an alternative tool and try and get a refund.

Jon

[Allan Chesney]

Jon,

I suppose it all depends on what you expected the program to do.  It is primarily designed for quickly visualising what a proposed building will look like.  It does this by allowing you to draw a plan and it takes care of the third dimension. It then allows you to create Photo-realistic images of your project for printing, or projection to the audience of client.  It is NOT primarily designed to create detailed plans - they are just incidental to creating the 3D model.

When it comes to accuracy it will do it. You can set the grid for example, to 1mm (or fraction of an inch) if you want and with Snap on it will snap to that. Nudge will also move a wall or element in 1mm increments (or lengthen a wall or fence) simply by hitting the arrow keys.  You can control the precision in all these  and other dimensions to 10ths of a mm (don't know what this is in Imperial but it is almost microscopic)!  When I draw a fence (on both PCs) the length floats over the top to 1mm accuracy as it does for walls and some other things. Does it work for you on the Walls?

Anyway, if you are creating a 3D image (which is what TFP is all about) who can tell whether a wall/fence etc is 10 metres long or 10.1 - you could never see it. Likewise if a wall is 100mm thick or 101, who cares in 3D.

This leads me to wonder if it is the right program for you. If you are concerned about extreme precision, then, while TFP will handle the precision perfectly (as I said to 10th of a mm), that is not what it is about - it is visualisation, where precision is 'relatively' unimportant but where speed of creating a complex 3D model is - with no CAD knowledge required.

I have been using this program or its predecessors for 10 years or more (almost daily) and it is truly incredable in what it will do, in extremely short time, at a ridiculously low price.  Products with similar photorealistic results are 7 or more times the price.

I cannot explain the erratic behaviour you mentioned when HA is off.  Any previous reports of issues have been when it was ON.  Even this depends very much on the configuration of the PC itself and that presumably must be the situation in your case.

The program is not perfect -what software is?  There are a few bugs and probably more to be found since this is a totally new version. However, what it is designed for it does well and is extremely quick to use once you get used to it, which does not take long.

Allan

[jstranger]

Allan

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

I am not really that obsessed with precision - to the nearest 10cm is certainly good enough for the garden (and yes we do use metric over here in the UK!). The issues I am having are really more about inconsistent, awkward and non-intuitive user interface. Yes, I know it is relatively cheap, but I have been in the software business for over 30 years and frankly it looks like a very immature product. It is not a matter of cost as clearly most of the functionality has already been created - but features that are available in one context are not present in another. For example, I do indeed see the dimensions when I first create a fence, but there seems to be no way of getting them to show subsequently by selecting that fence. You can for a wall, but not for a fence! Doesn't anyone else find this odd? I would have thought that overall dimensions were basic properties that every object/element would inherit.

I suspect that many of my problems stem from the fact that this actually in practice a completely new product as you suggested. I was fooled by the 'v12' into thinking that it was mature whereas it is clearly not much more than a beta version of a v1.0 release. The other reasons for my problems is probably that my main immediate interest is in landscape design rather than building design or interiors. And these are clearly the most immature areas of the product. Does anyone have any information on forthcoming releases or how these are communicated to users such as myself?

Jon

PS You are quite right - I should have said when I turn 'on' HA. But this is another weak area of the product as I am using a very standard high-end PC and I cannot take advantage of its power.

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Jon,

I agree, V12 is misleading - it replaces V11 but is actually a scaled down version of Envisioneer. As you guessed the landscape area is also the least developed although FAR advanced on V11.

Most other things in the garden probably dont involve dimensions so much so you may get on OK with it.

If you have some landscagng suggesions, (like the poor fence dimensioning) put them in the Feature Requests section. An update is expected soon although it will probably address advanced rendering issues but at least it will get them recorded for future releases.

Allan

[Zoom]

Thank you, Jon, for your posts which make me feel like I'm not crazy for thinking this product is ... not what it's billed as.  I've used CAD packages for many years... I could not imagine that this package would lack such basic, elementary and simple-to-implement capabilities that are VITAL to basic drawing.  I'm not talking about fancy, highly-detailed CAD work, but just quick-n-easy layout.  Specifically:

  * I drew the first wall of my house but, as you said, there was no way to tell how long the wall was, and it wasn't snapping to any grid, so I just let it go at 30' 5/16" or something crazy like that figuring I could hit Properties and set the length to 30' manually.  . . .  only to discover (in amazement!) there's no way to do so, and there's no way to even SEE how long my wall is!  I also turned the Commander on but it's all grey, doesn't show me anything when I click on my wall.  It's insane that I can't either see the dimensions of my wall nor quickly set it's length - instead I have to work around this most elementary task by trying to set dimension lines up and playing finicky with the bloody mouse.  THIS IS CRAZY and I am quite angry with this product!  How could this happen?  Did they have no testers that ever tried just building a 30' wall and said it shouldn't be a one-hour task??!!  GAH!  Excuse the outburst but this is really inexcusible on the part of the software, and I expect a patch version to come out immediately that will (1) display the dimensions of a selected object (c'mon that's basic!!) and (2) Allow me to adjust the dimensions from within the Properties or similar window for a selected object.

  * The other thing I hit quickly was when laying out my Site Boundary, I got the site layed out then found there's now way to calculate the square footage / acreage of a site.  That's very strange, as it would be very simple to do!  This item isn't important as the first item is, but it is amazing it's not there.

  Well, so much for my first hour with this primitive software.  I await the patch to yield the basic functionality to make it useful.

[Allan Chesney]

If you just place a single wall, it is true that you will not get the dimension after you release the mouse but as soon as you add a second wall you do.  You can then click the dimension itself if you want and type in what you want, or (even for a single wall) you can right click, select lengthen and, when you click the wall again to lengthen it with the mouse, the Commander bar is activated, so you can see the dimension as you drag or you can type it in.  You can also use the Arrow keys on the keyboard to lengthen or move walls in 1/16ths of an inch (if you set the Nudge accordingly - defaults to an inch I think - Settings/Program Settings/Drawing Aids). Incidentally it only took me a split second to draw a 30ft wall - exactly 30ft! 

It is really a question of getting to know the software - and also its purpose.  It is not really a CAD program but maybe could be called a CAV  (Computer Assisted Visualisation) 3D Visualisation is what it is all about not CAD precision - but it will do the precision too if you really want it.

The square area for rooms is a strange omission though, as it was there in the previous 11 versions!!  It will give the area of a location but not a room (or the site as you found).  Again I suppose it is probably irrelevent for 3D visualisation.  I have never used it once in all those years, so was not even aware for some time that it has been left out.

Allan

[Doug.S]

also look here (click below) to find ways to measure room(s) sq-ft

and I think you could do the same to measure plot plan/site boundary with temporary and/or hidden walls on a "fictitious" additional location....


http://forum.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,386.0.html

http://forum.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,281.0.html


Often there are "work arounds" for things not obvious in the program...or new items can be requested in future versions

[Zoom]

Thanks for the helpful responses.  I am getting more used to the software and how to get things done, although I am still surprised at the way it wasn't handled as simply as it could/should have been.  But I do appreciate the software's flexibility in other areas, and it looks like it'll get the job done.  Thanks again for the help.

[Allan Chesney]

As a new user you will likely have some fresh ideas while up oldies have got used to things from previous versions, so please list them in the Feature Requests. May be best to check in this section first though in case the feature does exist - some are too deeply buried. We have already complained about this!!

Allan