Control visibility of surface definition diagonal lines AND Garage Doors

[rogerbcooper]

Still encountering more of the complexities of TFP Pro16.  I feel the need to create/edit in the elevation view mode.  (Sometimes, element properties do it but often not.)  I accept that TFP does not offer that option.  Thus, I have been trying to perform those functions in either TurboCad and/or SketchUp and tranfer data/files back and forth.

When I do an Export/Import between programs a lot of diagonal line are created at the destination display.  I think that I have identified these as the definition of surfaces.  I may have missed some option and/or filter to suppress these from displaying.

1.  Are these diagonal lines the definition of surfaces/materials?

2.  If so, how do I turn them off (hide them)?

I have imported some *.skp elements from the web into the catalog and there were no associated diagonal lines.  When I created a door in SketchUp and imported it as a new element into the catalog there are a lot of them.

When I export my TFP house model into SketchUp, the TFP returns the favor and creates a bunch in there.

One particular instance that I was trying to do was to modify the garage door.  Our actual door has windows for the top row of panels.  I can't figure how to do this in TFP, but it looks like SU will let me change the color of these panels.

Another is to modify the front entry door appearance.  Since this door can be solid with an image skin, it may have an alternate solution.

In either case, if I could bring the appearance to what I want, it doesn't matter to me if the materials takeoff listing is wrong.

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Roger,

The lines tyou seem to be talking about are the verticies (I think that is what they call them) and yes they define the surface - there is no way to turn them off that I know about.

It sounds like you are doing a lot of unnecesary swapping of file between programs. Obviously there may sometimes be something ideal for what you want for Sketchup for example but I have been using TFP and its predecessor FP3D daily for maybe 15 years and I could count the things I have had to manipulate outside the program on one hand and have fingers to spare! Probably the things you want to do can be done it is just a question of knowing how - for example, windows in garage doors...

If you want a garage doors or front doors etc with windows the go to the door Appearance tab, select the Door Leaf and then click the image and you will find there are dozens of Decorative doors to choose from in several sections of the materials catalogue. The bright pink become transparent in the program to make the windows. You can even use your own photo of the door and make the window areas transparent by using a photo editing program (eg the simple built-in Microsoft Paint) and make the glass areas Magenta (Red 255, Green 0, Blue 255) and then save as a BMP (not JPG as the magenta colour shifts and beomes visible). Use the forum Search on Creating your own Textures for details if you want to do that as it has been covered many times - or just ask again if you cant find what you want.

Similarly with other things that you may want to do that are not apparent, just ask. Importing objects can be tedius and can contribute to corruptions of the model and a rapid increase in file size leading to memory and hence movement issues.

Allan

[rogerbcooper]

It would not be the first time I have done things the hard way. But, I must be so close to the trees that I can't see the forest.

I have attatched a snip from Home Depot (my door is similar - the top row of panels is windows).  Also attached a snip of Element Manager-Garage Doors (not talking about highlites above the door as shown in the snip).  As I walk thru the properties in EM, I am missing how to highlite any of the panels for mods (i.e. the top row of panels) and none of the materials pictures look like that.

Once the door is selected and placed in the house model, it is integral and I don't know (yet) how to modify its innards.  In the cad system I would explode it to modify only the parts I want to modify.  I am probably just missing the obvious here.

[Doug.S]

The lines tyou seem to be talking about are the verticies (I think that is what they call them) and yes they define the surface - there is no way to turn them off that I know about.
snip  Allan

Not to be too picky but....
the lines are called "edges" (even tho they are making a flat surface)
Vertices are the "points" where edges meet
"Faces" are the surface areas ("closed" area of connected edges and vertices) that materials/textures are applied to.

Remembering geometry: three points define a flat surface

And the reason there are edges in the middle of a vertex model flat surface is because many vertex model programs don't handle polygons well with more than 3 edges...thus even square or rectangular surfaces consist of paired triangles (2 triangles sharing one edge; 5 lines make a rectangle); resulting in a diagonal "line/edge" between corners...and if all are in the same plane, when rendered, it all looks flat.

Some vertex modelling programs prefer 4 sided polygons rather than triangular 3 sided polys. These are usually organic (people, plants, animal type) shapes which are often "smoothed" surfaces and the smoothing algorithms work well with "quads" but fail miserably with "tri's".
5 or more sided polygon faces often crash any vertex program...or at least cause significant issues.

If you look at TFP vertex model meshes (only lines showing), they are composed of triangular faces. 

[Allan Chesney]

Thanks Doug for the explanation of the 'triangles' etc. I am not into that sort of thing I am afraid.

Rodger,

There should be no need to go into the Elements Manger to do this sort of thing, although you can - there is nothing wrong with doing it there, but it does add an unnecessary level of complexity. Essentially the Elements Manager is to move things around within the catalogue or do bulk edits.

To design a single garage door you just need to right click one in the Catalogue on the right of your plan, and select Add (or Edit to change an existing one).  Here you can change the type of the door, sizes, thickenesses etc and on the Appearance Tab you can choose the visual surface, with windows etc.  If you wanted it to look like the Clopay door in your image, you could just use that image, on the door's Appearance tab i(f you can get one that is a better resolution). In a photo editing program replace the black 'windows' with Magenta colour as referred to earlier and use this image on the door. The Magenta will become transparent and give you see through openings.

Once the door is selected and placed in the house model, it is integral and I don't know (yet) how to modify its innards.  In the cad system I would explode it to modify only the parts I want to modify.  I am probably just missing the obvious here.

Probably what you are "missing" here is that is that TFP is all about Visualisation - so there is no need to "modify its innards" as they are not seen in the 3D model. What did you want to change inside the door? 

Essentially you can create anything in TFP (see the PDF in this post http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,1130.0.html and other objects in http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,315.0.html) but they are still aimed at external appearance rather than internal workings, although the latter can be as detailed as you want too - but pointless really if they are not visible! When you are used to the detailed line by line drawing in a CAD program, the simplicity of not having to do that any more can be overlooked, but when realised the 'liberation' is exhillarating!

As you said, trees can certainly get in the way of seeing the forest!! 

Allan

[rogerbcooper]

Thanks for the help so far, but I am not out of the woods yet.  Since "a picture is worth a thousand words" and responses are limited in length, the details are included in the two attached files.

In a nutshell, I can't quite finish-off the process as discussed.

Thanks again (and don't give up on me yet),
Roger

[Doug.S]

Not sure what your issue or questions are...

but did notice your image is saved as .jpg...and to get true magenta you need to save as a .bmp (.jpg compression won't save all magenta as true magenta).

Aside from that, what is not working? Maybe I'm dense but I could not interpret from attached ...other than something does not work to finish it up? What goes wrong and when in the steps/process?

It appears you are able to make the desired image and save it in catalog/images and it shows well in views except windows are not transparent; thus probably not true magenta?...edit: deleted error (true magenta should show as transparent in screen as well as rendered views; just shows magenta in the created .bmp file).

And it appears either you plan to add a driveway pad with thickness or the terrain is below a garage door bottom opening level.

We all know pics and words take time to convey meaning...so we all are patient and will help you as we can.

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Roger,

responses are limited in length, the details are included in the two attached files.

There is no limit to the length of responses as far as I know - the only limit is to attachments at 4 to a maximum of 4MB in total. You should be able to just keep typing ad infinitum!!     Once you fill the comments box a scroll bar should appea. You can also put the cursor over the double line in the middle of the box at the bottom, and stretch it so you can see more of the text at one time. That is how it works in Internet Explorer - not sure what the other browsers do.

Anyway, from the images the only things I can think of is that the image scale setting is wrong. Did you play with the Mapping setting? With that you can change the scale and also move the image around on the surface.  Clicking the down arrow for example should move the image down so you can see the windows - they are obviously there as they show in the thumbnail.

The other issue you may have is with the Window Magenta colour. It is showing in the material icon and shouldn't - it should be transparent in all screen views, in the icon, preview image and in the model before and after rendering. This would indicate that it is not a prue Magenta (Red 255, Green 0, Blue 255). Even changing one of the colour numbers by just 1, in any direction, will cause the transparency to fail. As Doug mentioned and as I did earlier, it also must be a BMP not JPG, as this change the colour number if only around the edges. You need to be careful also if you resize the image, because, depending on the setting you use, the edges of the colours can bleed into each other slightly. If you need to resize the image you must do that first, then add the Magenta.

Allan

[rogerbcooper]

The thread on this topic is veering away from surfaces (at least the diagonal lines part).

I did indeed use a BMP file and the correct magenta at first. The JPG came about when I saw some included in the textures with TFP and was testing every combination of settings that seemed possible.  None of them worked.

The problem is very simply that I cannot get an image of a white garage door with four windows into the model. I can change the door material to a texture that shows the image with windows. I can edit the materials properties so the my window looks OK to me. BUT, the picture icon in the lower right of the Doors-appearance tab will not change to show windows and that image is what is brought into the model.

At this point it is the procedure that is the issue. The procedure is something that seems to a newbie like it is an important commonly used tool.

I know that I am not the first user wanting to modify the garage door because there are a half dozen similar BMP (and JPG) file of garage doors with magenta windows that came with the textures in the program. So, my file aside, I tried with one of the files that came with TFP. Same thing, material indicates windows but the image does not.  I have attached that BMP file and screenprints that show how far I got. Can somebody else get that BMP file into a model? If so, how is it done?

With regard to response length - I had not noticed the double bar at the bottom of the text window. I composed in Word and tried to copy-paste. When it only took part of the text, I assumed there was a limit (conditioned reflex from other sites).  Thanks for the heads up.

With regard to my terrain elevations - thats "new ground" (pun intended) that I haven't explored yet. I generally know the slopes of the property but do not have numerical data for them. I visually compare the grade to the exposed portions of the foundation. So, get the house portion of the model reasonably completed and then play with the terrain. (Sharp-eyed look to pick that up)

   

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Roger,

I had no problem importing your file and rendering it as you can see in the image.  The two doors closest are yours, the other was just a test one from the program. I did it a night so you can see the windows are definately transparent.

The problem is that you have the image set to Tile, so it is repeating multiple times across the door, each Tile having two windows - note the little blue strips of sky in the second image (from your PDF).  If you untick the Tile boxes and Unlock the image (click the Lock icon) it should be OK.

Probably the image should be a bit larger so the resolution is better. It is currently tiling 16 times across the door so when it is magnified to fill the door with one 'Tile' it may not be sharp enough if you are rending up close, although it is not too bad from the distance I have rendered it.

Re the slope to the garage door.

You will notice in the image I have sloped the terrain slightly in the front, to tilt the Terrain and drive up to the garage doors. If this is the only slope on the site then just select the slope tool, enter the height of the step into the garage, click the distance away from the door where you want the slope to start and drag it to the door. That will slope the terrain up to the door and raise the terrain across the rest of the plan to the higher level. 

If just the drive slopes up you could use the Stairs "Ramp" tool.

If the whole site is flat you can just raise the whole Terrain in Setting / Program Settings/ Terrain - adjust the Base Height.

As you said earlier we have got away from the original subject so if you want to ask any further questions about sloping the terrain etc then it would be best to start a new post.  I have added 'Garage Doors' to the Subject Line of this thread, so if others are interested in that subject they may see it.

Allan

[rogerbcooper]

Allan,

I found the problem.  I had not started from scratch to create my door.  I had started with one of the existing TFP choices.  Then I proceeded directly to the "appearance" tab to make changes.  Bottom line - the original door had four leaves and all of my efforts were corrupted by this.  Once I stumbled onto this fact and changed to one leaf, all the advcie and my efforts came together just fine.

I feel a little foolish but it is an easy mistake to make.  Now anyway if readers see this, they can avoid going down this blind alley.

Thanks again, Roger

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Roger,

Good to hear it is all sorted out!
All the best with your project.

Allan