Second floor for a Cape Cod design

[reismith]

We are having a 2-story Cape Cod built. I have the plans and am trying to recreate them in TFP but am having trouble with the 2nd floor. With a Cape Cod, the second floor is sort of built into the roof with varying wall heights and sloped ceilings and dormers and the roof line ultimately coming all the way to the top of the first floor. Any tips on how to create a 2nd floor like this?

[Allan Chesney]

This is one that often catches people out and I recall facing the same dilemma many years ago myself.

Think of it this way: The roof sits on the top of the exterior walls (as defined in the Building Locations) - so how high are the EXTERIOR walls of your second floor?  In your case they have no height in effect.  This means that in your Building Locations for the Second Floor, the wall height has to be, in effect, set to zero.  Since you cannot set it to zero, set it to just 1mm (or fraction of an inch).

Now proceed to draw the walls (they will be only 1mm high) but they will automatically be set, in the default settings, to "Extend to Roof".  When the roof is inserted it will sit on the top of the 1mm wall and the interior walls will extend to the roof allowing them to still accept doors etc.  Because the wall is only 1mm high, the roof will go right down to the floor.

If you will still have a Baseboard on the upper floor, then set the wall height to the height of the baseboard or else turn the baseboard off, (otherwise it will stick up above your 1mm wall). Remember this has to be set on both left and right sides of the wall.

These other threads may help also: http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,816.0.html,  http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,407.0.html and http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,902.0.html.  If you have mixed floor levels, this one may help too: http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,925.0.html

Hopefully that will get you started - ask again if you need more detail.

Allan

[reismith]

Your hints were helpful but I still can't seem to get the second floor to work. I set one wall to 0" (the program seems to accept 0 when measuring in inches) but the far wall actually has a little height (2' 2") so I set that. When I then try to insert the hip roof, the program assumes a pyramid roof (4 sided, not 2) so the walls don't extend and the roof 'hovers' several feet above the second floor. I can't seem to find any options to change the roof geometry to make it two faced. I even tried calculating the front and back wall heights manually and building them in sections to get the desired sloping but can't get a roof to set on that arrangement either. What am I doing wrong?

- Rei

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Rei,

I think from your comments that it sounds as though you have set the height of the individual walls in the model rather than in Building Locations.  The walls themselves should be just set to 'Extend To Roof' in the Wall Properties. You should not have to change any of the settings in the wall as such.  All the changes are done in Settings / Building Locations.  Change the settings for the second floor so that the wall height is 2'2" and the ceiling also.  This means the roof will insert at 2'2" also (instead of hovering at 8') and the walls will extend up to meet it where necessary.  Obviously the ceiling needs to be set to Cathedral, so it extends up to the roof also (otherwise you are going to have to crawl around on your hands and knees!!).

Because one side has a higher wall than the other this creates an added complication but you can get around that by drawing the roof "By Picking Points" (or By Perimeter and just drag the edge of the roof on the low side in) and make it so that it does not extend over the part of the building that is less than 2'2". To cover that part ,the roof needs to extent below the walls, so you can use the roof Overhang to do that.  Select the low side of the roof only (Make sure that you only have one green arrow on that side and that all the others are red), then change the width of the overhang so that it takes the overhang beyond the wall to cover that part of the roof.  The walls will be cut off at the roof.

The two ends where you want a gable rather than a slope must then be selected, so you now have green arrows at each side and the other two are red. Select Properties and change the roof Type to Gable (Click the little Hip Roof symbol).

Hopefully the image will make the whole thing clearer. I have made the lines making the upper and lower walls and upper floor a different colour, so you see how it all fits together and how the overhang chops the walls off. I have added a simple dormer and included the BLD file so you can see how it is all set. It is in metric but you will have to use your own meansurements anyway - it should give you the idea. I have not inserted a ceiling.

Hope it helps - ask again if anything is not clear.

Allan

[UigDesign]

Hi

I know it's a while since anyone posted on this thread but I'm hoping someone can help!  I'm drawing a similar house...it's actually two storey and the rear is as a normal two storey but the front is like the Cap Cod house discussed here with a lower exterior wall and 3 windows half in the roof.  I seem to be getting the walls right guided by what was written before but it's the front windows that are driving me nuts! 

I've tried the dormer tool but that puts the dormer and window in the roof whereas they sit on the second floor wall and extend up into the dormer.  Inside there is a normal height ceiling and small combes on either side of the windows I hope that makes sense.  Can you advise how to achieve this please?

Thanks, Sarah

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Sarah.

Welcome to the forum.   

Is there any chance of posting an image similar to how it should look? It is not a style used very much in Australia so I want to be sure exactly what you are talking about first. Also the expression "small combes" means nothing to me, so it would be helpful to explain that too, before I try to explain how to achieve what you want.

Allan

[UigDesign]

Hi Allan

Thank you in advance!  I am re-drawing our existing house ready for submitting a garage conversion and change of use for the local planning department here in the Western Isles so am able to attach the original drawings that I'm trying to reproduce.  One is the current front and side elevation, the other shows the layout of the second floor including the combes (or small sloped parts of the ceiling at the front of the house).

I think I may have committed a mistake (reading your previous advice) as I have just changed the height of the front walls to achieve the offset effect....so any further advice on the general wall/roof construction in TurboFLOORPLAN will be most gratefully received!

Thank you, Sarah

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Sarah,

You actually posted two copies of the same image but at least I can see what the front looks like.

Insert the main roof on the tiny walls of the second floor and then insert Dormers, positioning them right on the edge of the roof. The images below give the details so hopefully you can follow it from them. Because the Dormer normally sits in the roof, you will have to cut away the bit of the main roof that sits in front of the Dormer, hence second and third steps.

Let me know if you cannot follow the instructions.

Allan

[UigDesign]

Hi Allan

Thank you - I'm making great progress.  Apologies for the duplicate attachment; the layout of the second floor is on the second page of the .pdf file. My only problems now are: 
- How do I select the dormer wall in 3D - I see to be able to select windows, fences, etc but not the wall
- My external wall in front of the dormer now extends up beyond the main roof line on either side of the dormer - I've set it to autoextend but it seems to go too far!
- I seem to have an extra wall in the dormer which means when I insert the window is sits in just one wall.

Sarah

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Sarah,

Good to hear you are making progress.

You should be able to just click the wall to select it. Can you select the walls in the Plan View? If not the you must have turned the Selection option off in View Filter. Check the little filter icon next to Walls - it should be orange. If it is almost white then it is turned off. Click it to turn Selection on.

Auto extend walls will only stop at the roof IF the roof is on the same location as the walls. Your Ground Floor walls should be normal height (8ft or 2400mm). The upper floor walls should be only a fraction of an inch or 1mm if the roof goes right to the floor. These should be the set in Building Locations. When you insert the upper floor walls they should appear only tiny even though set to Auto extend. The roof should be inserted on the second floor. Any walls then that you draw for rooms inside the roof area will still extend to the roof after you insert the roof.

I am not sure what you mean by an extra wall in the dormer. Can you post an image of it? It sounds as though it is coming from another location. The only wall on the upper level is tiny so would not be seen. The roof and dormer should be on this same location which would force this wall to be tiny so only the dormer wall should exist. If another wall is there then it must be from the floor below (these also should be auto extend) or the upper floor wall height setting in Building Locations is not set to a fraction/1mm high.

Check Building Locations. If the wall height settings for the upper floor  are wrong you will have to change them and insert the upper floor walls again. The height setting change will only apply to objects inserted after the setting is changed.

Hope some of that helps.

Allan

[UigDesign]

Good morning!
Right, I've started a fresh drawing and am attaching the current status.  As my upper storey walls at the rear are the same floor to ceiling height as the ground floor I have used the full wall height.  Then I've picked points for the roof and used an overhang to get the roof angle and front wall height right - hooray (I think).
- Despite checking the filters, I still cannot select the front dormer wall in 3D but have discovered that I cannot in 2D either (unless I delete the front wall temporarily...) hmm. 
- You said to align the dormer wall with the front wall AND roof (but my roof overhangs...) so I wasn't sure of the correct alignment
- Now when I try to cut an opening it doesn't seem to work and I wonder if it is because I am working in the area of the overhang rather than main area of the roof?  I just cannot seem to get it to select the area you indicated.  Occasionally I can select a partial area, do the gable end stage but just get a small nick in the front roof area.  Oh blow, help!
- Finally, when I finally do get this to work, can I duplicate the dormer I'm working on or do I have to repeat the whole process?
Thanks again
Sarah

[Allan Chesney]

Good evening Sarah, (actually nearly midnight here!)

Looks like you are getting very close -  not much wrong now from what I can see from your images!

The reason you cannot cut out the roof is, as you suspected, because you are working on the overhang only, except for the end point. What you need to do is set the overhang back to what it should be normally, then select that edge of the roof, right click and choose Move Edge (adjust support height) and drag that edge of the roof out to the edge of the front wall where it should be. This will lower that side of the roof (and hence the walls) in the same way as using the overhang did.
Now when you cut the opening you will be cutting the edge of the roof and the overhang will be cut too.

This will mean that the overhang of the roof and dormer will be the same so when you align the walls you will also be aligning the roof. It is important to move the dormer wall not the dormer roof. If you move the wall the roof will move with it but not the other way around.

It would be very difficult to select the dormer wall in 2D as it would more likely select the main wall instead. If you delete the main wall then, as you found, you would be able to select the dormer wall. This is why I said to select it in 3D. The only thing I can suggest (as long as you do not have the selection filter off) is that there is a problem with the computer's video card driver (not up to date). You can prove this by going to Settings / Program Settings / Graphics and un-tick Use Hardware Acceleration. If turning off HA allows you to select the walls, it indicates you need to update the video driver (from the driver manufacturer's website). You can leave HA off but you may find the program will run very slow. Turn HA back on if it does not make any difference.

It is possible to Duplicate the Dormer but it will be difficult to select everything you need to duplicate. It will be easiest to select it all in 3D, holding down the Shift key as you select each element. It will not duplicate the opening so you would have to do that again.

Let me know how it goes.

Allan

[UigDesign]

Dear Allan
Success!  Thank you again for all your help, it has made a huge difference.
Sarah

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Sarah,

Glad to here you got it to work! 

Allan