Tree Photoboards to Share

[Doug.S]

Allan mention to me that  Basic is better exterior render  and Advance for interior render   

Robert

I sorta agree depending of what is meant by "better" render.

Basic is usually more often used to render correctly (or for faster trials/tests), or render at all, for exterior views.

However I have made many exterior render views and I think the quality of advanced render is far better....in that the shadow details are less harsh and more realistic compared to real photos.  But the render times can be a lot longer.

A test is to take a photo, under different lighting conditions (full sun and fully cloudy days) of a known location, camera [position and angle, and time and date. Then make a 3D model of the scene and render it set to same real conditions and compare to real photos side by side. This will let you know what looks best or most useful to your projects.

Such a best test case is a "before" and "after" remodel or addition.....and compare the actual to your rendered image(s) as the project is proposed to see if the real completed work matches what you expected it to look like based upon TFP design tools.

My findings show advanced renders are much better/more realistic; at least for me....you may have different results.....but then you will know how best to do projects in your own way and have a repeatable process for your design work.

And be aware, the render results are different between basic and advanced, not only for shadows but colors, textures, and sun shadows (sun position seems to be different between basic and advanced even tho they are set to same location, day, date, time). This can be important if you are studying overhangs, roofs, trees, etc. for the sun or shade they provide at different times of the year.

To find out for yourself...make a scene and compare everything in the scene with side by side basic and advanced renders (with render variables all the same where possible)....look at colors, textures, shadows, sunlit areas, shadow angles ...if you have Photoshop or similar, overlay one over the other to help see the differences with top layer set to partial transparency or set to a mode to see the differences in color and luminosity so the differences stand out...you may be surprised.

[funrob29]

Doug That is what I did in my test above.

The issue was with the imported targa Palms as photoboard and the catalog trees in advance render the leaf where broken up and shadow Offset, was terrible. But the same scene with the same setting rendered in Basic was way better , look at my sample

Robert

[the cad man]

Was the render Basic or advance?

Hi Robert, I used the Advanced render mode...even though the photoboard trees do render better in Basic mode, my clients aren't interrested in the trees, it's the house and the fall of sunlight in summer and winter they care about.  So for me it's high quality Targa photoboard trees and Advanced rendering to get "the best of both worlds".

Gaz

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Garry, Robert, Doug and all,

Been busy so a bit of delay - sorry.

Well I tried one of the Targa trees with no sucess at all - obviously not transparent even though it was turned on when saved (unless there is something else that has to be done).  Converted to a Magenta BMP it was fine.

The tests below were to check out the shadows between Basic and Advanced. I did not get as big a missalignment but obviously not right in Advanced. What was interesting was the Targa tree - the angle of the image changed and the shadow changed drastically and clearly wrong when the sun is coming from such an acute angle. Basic gave an ultra thin shadow, from the edge of the image, as you would expect, while Advanced seems to create a shadow as though the billboard tree had not rotated.  Makes me wonder whether there is some code in Advanced that renders the photoboard as if it is stationary so you still get a shadow and maybe this is causing the missalignment.

Advanced has also lost the leaves and is far too bright for 7am!  Basic is obviously a far better render and I have usually found this to be the case for exterior views, unless the view is close to a building so that you get the benefit of bounced light to soften shadow around the building. In full cloudless sunlight, shadows are very harsh (here in Australia they are anyway!  ) but on verandahs etc with reflected light, rather than direct sunlight, Advanced does as better job, makging the building look more realistic.

I will get the developers to have a look at this, but I fear far to late for version 17! Hopefully they have already found it and fixed it!

Allan

[funrob29]

Happy to see you picked up on what I was trying to my point  out with my Basic and Advance sample!

Didn't you see the reply about my posted trees being PNG cause Targa file is to large to post in the forum?
If you save the PNG trees I posted and " OPEN in PhotoShop it would have a transparent Background, "THEN to Save as TARGA to import as PHOTOBOARD"

Robert

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Robert,

If you save the PNG trees I posted and " OPEN in PhotoShop it would have a transparent Background, "THEN to Save as TARGA to import as PHOTOBOARD"

That is EXACTLY what I did - with just one slight exception - I do not have Photoshop so used PaintShop Pro. When I opened the PNG the background was transparent. I saved it as TARGA and it was still transparent. Imported to TFP and it wasn't.  Did it again and made sure transparency was enabled, which it was and the background was still transparent in PSP but again not in TFP. Maybe there is some other setting in PSP that needs to be adjusted even though it is displaying it as transparent.

Yes there is a very distinct difference in the trees between the two render options!

Allan

[the cad man]

Hi guys,

I've added another couple of high-res Targa images to my collection now, including: the Gum Tree, a Callalilly, a Mother-in-law's Tongue and a Diosma.  Each of them is far too large to post here, but I thought once I have enough images I might burn them to CD and anyone wanting a copy I could mail one off to them.

As you can see from the strange shadows, I rendered these in Advanced mode.

Gaz

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Garry,

Can you please try reducing the size of one of the Targa images to see if you can get it under 4MB?  Try it first to make sure it has not broken the transparency, then save it to the forum (or email it to me - alches AT iinet.net.au). I would just like to try one to verify that it does work - converting the PNG int TGA in PSP certainly didn't.

Also, your latest image - Basic or Advanced? How is the gum tree set - billboard or stationary?  Can you try with the same render settings but with the gum tree the opposite 'rotation' to what you had? I just want to see the effect on the shadow alignment.

Allan

[the cad man]

Allan here's a dramatically cut down Callalilly, at 3.45MB.  I'm just rendering some samples of the Gum Tree for you now, it'll be up in a minute.

[the cad man]

Interresting results Allan...as you can see the shadow offset in the Advanced mode when the tree was a rotating "billboard", and you see the results of a stationary Photoboard, both at 0 degrees and at 180 degrees...bizarre!

Gaz

[the cad man]

Here are the renders of the greatly cut down Calalilly at Basic and Advanced renders...they don't turn out too bad, probably look a bit better at Basic at this level of complexity...even the shadows look better.

Gaz

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Garry,

Which is which - Basic first I assume.

Well I tried it but with no success at all.  Renders in Basic had a white background, although transparent in the dialog boxes, but in Advance it crashes totally. Have tried it wtice with two separate imports and both worked in Basic (but not transparent) and both crashed the program in Advanced.

I have a suspicion that Targa is not officially supported, maybe because of some issues still. In all the discussions, even with the programming area, there has been no mention of it as an alternative for transparency. Anyway I will make specific enquiries and find out.

Allan

[funrob29]

By the shadow offset I belive  #2 is Advance 

Robert

[funrob29]

Hi Gaz./ Doug

Like you figured out Gaz, in the different position sample,  the correct setting is Rotating, Stationary is a NOT.

What I figured out is that the shadow was created at the original position of the rotating tree.

So Allan that is the setting issue to fix. Not an essay thing, to married a rotating Flat object and have a shadow marrie rotation and light ANGLE . Is like making Love with One Top (FLAT) and two Bottoms (ROTATION-ANGLE),  LOL 

Robert

[funrob29]

Thanks for the Callally Gaz

If the Targa file is not created in Photoshop by starting with a Transparent Page you will get a White Background.

Also other paint programs automatically start with White Page or will turn  the imported Transparency to a solid Grey Page!

The Only way I can post a transparent object to the forum  and download with Transparency is created in PhotoShop as a PNG

Robert