Cubaricua Interior- Daylight and night Render issues

[funrob29]

Hi Friends and Experts, 

Two days of design work and almost two weeks of testing to get the renders attached.

Forget the Basics for Interior render

The attached renders are using Advance  render.

Happy that I was able to finally render in Advance but disappointed at the issues I experience.

Daylight renders would take an average of 1 hour but took me 8 renders to get the best results in the attachments " " Disappointed that interior light will not work when using Daylight settings.

Not very happy and Fustrated from Program constantly, NOT RESPONFDING, FREEZING & PROGRAM CLOSING.

PHOTOBOARD problems, every Tree imported as Targa file, at first even though having transparent background  they would turn Grey and later they will import with transparent background but will import "UP SIDE DOWN"  Magenta backgound Photoboards imported as BMP or JPEG the magenta will not become transparent   

Robert

[funrob29]

Hi Friends and Experts

This are the Nighttime render

I have a sample of the render setting in the attachment. I tried multiple settings, BRIGHTNESS from 1.00 to samples at 4.00 and DAYLIGHT DISABLE.

The main problem is that in order to have the interior lights work Daylight settings has to be disable and having the Brightness settings from above 2.00 the exterior gets washed out and below 2.00 interior is two dark

Next I will try lower the Brightness and raising the Bulb to higher watts but the spot lights are at 150 watts and the track lights are 75 watts.

It is Time consuming Trying different settings and  Hours of rendering Time. I hope to figure the settings soon so I can continue designing the interior instead of TESTING RENDER.

I need to add accessories, people furniture and details to the current rooms and create two additional rooms  to complete this project 

[funrob29]

Sorry I forgot to attach the last render setting for the two rooms afternoon! 

Robert

[funrob29]

  Hopeful News,

I just installed a new video card (NVIDIA GeForce 6200) and is rendering faster with Beautiful Lighting & Graphics so far using Advance, Level 4, The samples in the previous post was render at Level 3.

Fingers Close and with God's Blessings I believe I Conquered the Enemy "The Old Video Card" 

As soon as the render is complete I will post the result

Robert

[funrob29]

  Oh No 

Step 1 : Radiosity
steps = 427/1000
convergence = 0.10
time - 2302s

Display window turned white 

I have Auto Raytrace checked so I'm waitting to see if it goes to Step 2 = Raytrace

In the previous render with the Daylight disable in order to render with the interior lights ON, at Level = 3 it would do Steps = 78/500 then the display window would turn white and about 15 minutes later step 2 : Raytrace would proceed and finish render within 45 minutes to the attached results.

Is it OK that it doesn't do in step : 1 500/500 or 1000/1000.

When rendering with Daylight checked it will render 500/500 and take 6 hours to render plus it wont render the interior lights  even if they are turned ON 

Robert

[funrob29]

  It just started to render Step 2 : Raytrace is in line 228 of 600, Time 349s.  It only processed in step 1 : Radiosity steps = 427/1000 

I will upload render when finish. fingers, eyes, and feet cross,

Robert 

[funrob29]

This is the result:

Robert

[funrob29]

If you look at the screenshot render steps, you will notice a tree on the right side didn't render and the ones that rendered lost leafs 

???Robert  

[Doug.S]

All interior lights may not "light" up if render is set below quality of 5

AFAIK Brightness does not set the brightness of lights but a general scene image brightness level; much like you would get for a .jpg image of brightness adjustment in Photoshop.  I rarely use brightness in TFP. If scene is too dark, usually means needs more lights or brighter bulbs.

Best to render interiors with sunlight "off"; if exterior light needed use an exterior light

Targa file format does not seem to be a good way for billboard transparency; use only .bmp with magenta

I find that if render does not complete 500/500 or 1000/1000 etc. there is something wrong; usually a modelling error; most often is wall corners not perfect or imported models not quite right in TFP.

Yes, TFP is not perfect; sometimes work-arounds are needed. I have yet to find any 3D program that has no bugs and workarounds.

[funrob29]

Hi Doug,

Thanks but your respond was a bit disappointing, after we been discussing this issues since I started in this forum

The Only imported 3d files is the umbrella, store sign and they render fine.

Everything else is created with catalog objects, The Bar was created using TFP walls and floor. There's no issues with the walls.

The  Photoboard importing problems is with BMP, JPG, and Targa.

Why one time targa with transparent background turn grey and another time be transparent background but upside down.

What is the point of a program that has Targa and 3D import options and NOT WORK CORRECTLY 

(quote)Targa file format does not seem to be a good way for billboard transparency; use only .bmp with magenta!

Why the imported magenta not turn to transparent

Also what about the constant not responding? 

I didn't have this problem with TC V12 and FloorPlan V10

Maybe  TurboFloorPlan is too ambitious trying to do it all. 


Robert 

[Jack Zimmer]

Hi Robert,

Could you email me your bld file zipped? I will take a look at it for you.

Jack

[funrob29]

All interior lights may not "light" up if render is set below quality of 5

AFAIK Brightness does not set the brightness of lights but a general scene image brightness level; much like you would get for a .jpg image of brightness adjustment in Photoshop.  I rarely use brightness in TFP. If scene is too dark, usually means needs more lights or brighter bulbs.

Best to render interiors with sunlight "off"; if exterior light needed use an exterior light

I had the exterior lights off when rendering interior with no sunlight.

Are you saying:
1- When rendering a day scene exterior  have sunlight on with exterior lights off and prefer Basic?

2- When rendering Advance render: interior Day have the exterior lights On OUTSIDE and Interior lights On INSIDE with DAYLIGHT OFF and NO BRIGHTNESS but Higher LIGHT BULB WATTS ? 

3- When rendering Advance render: interior Night the same as Comment #2:interior Day Have the exterior...., and Global Time settings are for Exterior render only?

4- DAYLIGHT is only for Exterior render, does not DAYLIGHT needs to be ON when using GLOBAL TIME?

5- When I use DAYLIGHT ON the INTERIOR LIGHTS DON"T WORK no matter the WATTS.

6- When rendering interior Day does using EXTERIOR LIGHTS inside will turn on with DAYLIGHT ON and GLOBAL TIME?

I'm Going to try: Interior with NO Brightness, NO DAYLIGHT, EXTERIOR LIGHTs outside ON and GLOBAL TIME 10:30 AM. 

Robert

[funrob29]

Hi Robert,

Could you email me your bld file zipped? I will take a look at it for you.

Jack

Hi Jack,

Thanks for responding my Friend,

I will try but I believe even the BLD Zip file is to large for e-mail, this project includes the exterior of the shopping center, even though I deleted unnecessary area for this project is still over 25,000 MB max for email let me see what i can do. 

Thanks

[Doug.S]

Hi Robert,

Could you email me your bld file zipped? I will take a look at it for you.

Jack

Hi Jack,

Thanks for responding my Friend,

I will try but I believe even the BLD Zip file is to large for e-mail, this project includes the exterior of the shopping center, even though I deleted unnecessary area for this project is still over 25,000 MB max for email let me see what i can do. 

Thanks

you can upload to a free web site for Jack to download to avoid large file emails; use dropload or similar; there are many

[Doug.S]

I had the exterior lights off when rendering interior with no sunlight.

Are you saying:
1- When rendering a day scene exterior  have sunlight on with exterior lights off and prefer Basic?

2- When rendering Advance render: interior Day have the exterior lights On OUTSIDE and Interior lights On INSIDE with DAYLIGHT OFF and NO BRIGHTNESS but Higher LIGHT BULB WATTS ? 

3- When rendering Advance render: interior Night the same as Comment #2:interior Day Have the exterior...., and Global Time settings are for Exterior render only?

4- DAYLIGHT is only for Exterior render, does not DAYLIGHT needs to be ON when using GLOBAL TIME?

5- When I use DAYLIGHT ON the INTERIOR LIGHTS DON"T WORK no matter the WATTS.

6- When rendering interior Day does using EXTERIOR LIGHTS inside will turn on with DAYLIGHT ON and GLOBAL TIME?

I'm Going to try: Interior with NO Brightness, NO DAYLIGHT, EXTERIOR LIGHTs outside ON and GLOBAL TIME 10:30 AM. 

Robert

replies:
By exterior lights I think in terms of 2 kinds: 1) sunlight (via internal TFP on/off)  and 2) exterior located landscape lights such as tall street lights, etc. For interior renders turn off sun but turn on landscape light(s) if you need light from outside to show inside such as thru a window (and if I recall there may still be a bug for light thru open doors; maybe?)

1. exterior render: I use exterior lights on or off depending on the desired result, sun on/off for same reason but normally sun on. I usually prefer adv. render not basic. But basic is faster. Others prefer or only use basic.  I prefer better shadows especially under eaves or in recessed entrances and to get better transparency control thru windows to see partial insides.  It all depends on the desired result. Sometimes a sketchy render is all that is wanted nor needed...export to another render engine or use Photoshop to convert to "toon"/"architect" watercolor painting effect. It just depends. I experiment until I get what I want.

2. Yes, usually higher wattage if needed (or to balance exterior light vs. interior light)  or add interior lights in local places like a photographer would add lights to light up the objects better....and the lights may not be seen, just see the resulting effects. Jack has shown some example in this forum; usually top views to get a 3D floorplan...they look nice.  In other words, added light without seeing an obvious fixture and not so obvious to ask "where is that light coming from"

3. Global time setting AFAIK is for locating sun position; so if sun is off it has no importance. For interior night you may or may not want exterior lights at all.....in a big city it usually has exterior light shining in, on a farm it is dark outside except for maybe one large barn or yard light. Interior night (like most any interior render) I usually have sun off.

4. Daylight sun does depend on global time setting. Exterior shots during day = sun on and time set. For night try sun off or global time (sun on) set to night time...I have not done so with TFP but in Carrara it causes moonlight. Some programs allow for me to render either the sun or moon (or both; it does happen at odd times of the year)...for visual effect.

5. Yes often with sun on in interior renders the sun overpowers the interior lights even if little sun enters thru a window. I think that is a serious s/w bug issue. The only work around is to turn sun off and replace light thru windows with an exterior landscape light source.

6. Global time only affects sun light not other exterior landscape lights. I have never placed an exterior landscape light on interior so I don't know (you can test), but I'd guess it will work regardless of global time but if sun is on the sun may still override the interior light...maybe?

I hope Allan and Jack also comment on your questions as they are likely to have different experiences, different ideas, and different approaches...and probably more experience with many TFP renders. I use TFP on occasion along with several other 3D and 2D programs. I use what ever seems the best for my purposes....usually a combination of programs is faster, easier, and more controlled to get the results I want.