Floors suddenly upside-down and wall exterior side drop no longer there...

[snauckhoff]

I have a problem which looks like a bug. Suddenly some floors are flipped upside-down, i.e., floor sufrace and reverse side are reversed such that floor side are down and vice versa, and exterior walls features (sills, drop) disappear. This happens as a side effect of something I do, but I can't figure out what.

Is this a known bug or am I doing something wring?

/Sven

[Kajvin - Robert W]

Hi Sven, I have never seen this problem before, can You send a bld file then the problem appear and I will look at it.
/Robert

[Nik]

Sounds like you've everted the model...

But how

This thread will bear watching !!

[Allan Chesney]

Sven,

I have not seen this either.  Do the effects stay reversed or do they switch back at other times? 
Also - do you definitely only have one floor?  It is possible to insert multiple floors into the same room - there is no warning. Maybe this could have the effect that looks like a reversal of the floor - sometimes you get both surfaces at one time.
Do you get the same effect with Hardware Acceleration OFF?

As Robert said it would be interesting to see the file.

Allan

[snauckhoff]

Hi everyone. I attach the plan which shows the two "bugs".

Example of Reversed Floor: Using 2D Designers View of location "Underv

[Mike1158]

Sorry, you have got more elements than you need.  Try minimising your addition of ceilings and floors to those you need, in other words, minimise.  If you add ceilings and floors by 'room' you will get a better esult. Also, try to remove walls you do not need rather than making 'holes' in them to create, a hallway for example.

Sorry, this is a bit 'messy' and is more a patchwork quilt than anything else.

[Allan Chesney]

Sven,

I have had a look at your model and as you say the floor and wall sections are reversed for no apparent reason.  I deleted the floor and inserted a new one (by room) and it was OK.

I have highlighted each section of the reversed wall with a different texture and the are 10 difference sections of which a few are reversed.  Did the wall start out as one wall? If it did I can't understand why some sections are reversed. Some pieces of the wall overlap others and most seem to have different drop faces some as big as the wall itself.  It may be a bit of work to restore floors and ceilings but I would be inclined to delete all these wall pieces and replace them with a single wall for each storey and I think you will find this will solve the problem, although it does not explain why they are reversed.  Unfortunately you cannot use the right click and Replace each section, as it replaces it with the new wall reversed also.

There is a bug with the window sill on inside walls and because it is seeing this section as inside, this is probably the reason this one is not working. If you replace the wall it should be OK.

Allan

[Mike1158]

Alan, if you do not have complete 'rooms' you are building 'problems' into the design.  The advice of the professionals is to 'draw it clean, the way you would build it'.
Too many sections be they walls or ceilings/floors will just confuse the issue.  Fewer sections and more integrity.

[Kajvin - Robert W]

I have got Sven's design direct to my mail and I have send him my reply in Swedish, my conclusion was the same as Allan and Mike. Sven's design is a old house I think around 1940 so this will explaining all this diffrent type of walls.

If you use one type of wall then you begin to draw the exterior walls for example exterior concrete wall 500 mm hight by location, after that you can change the gabels to brick walls 500 mm  or 300 mm whit out the in closed area will be corrupt, You must draw exterior walls so that all corners is connected correct. The you can do the interior walls, on tip turn of auto floor and ceiling.
Robert

[snauckhoff]

Thank you all for your input. Actually, the house is in the ciry of Stockholm and is built around 1880 at which time they had enormous apartments (you may have watched Bergman's Fanny and Alexander, in which case you know what I mean). Then, in the 30's they cut up these apartments and made smaller ones and that is when the sometimes bizarre floor-plans emerged. And the mix of walls, some made of brick with clusters of chimney and ventilation pipes, others simple 2x4, 2x6 and 4x6 interor walls.

In my reply to Robban in Swedish I believe that they should add a feature to TFP so that one could force floor and ceiling trim to be placed where floor and ceiling actuall intersect with walls, not to where the walls begin and end. This "problem" caused me to have to experiment with the "walls" concept until I realized that I actually had to divide the "common" walls between the "half-levels" in the stair case and the main levels into one staircase wall and another walls for the main level. But that was after I had attempted to split the common walls to try to get the trim right... And, while I was experimenting with the walls, the floors suddenly disappeared which caused me to become really careful not to disturb the house of cards. I belive another feature could be for the program to warn whenever you attempt something that will cause a floor (or something else) to disappear as a side effect.

Anyhow, this has been an interesting experience and I thank you all for your input.

/Sven

[Mike1158]

Hi Sven,
I am afraid the program not allowing for walls having different thicknesses is a common one and will not go away soon.  However, it may be possible to use 'plugs' made from blocks or import the external walls in complete levels (sections) from sketchup.  This may assist you, I am looking into this so will get back to you when I have some news.

[Kajvin - Robert W]

Mike, Yes you can use diffrent thickness but first You draw a wall that enclosed the area after that You can change the wall as You will, you can even split a wall in the middle so you make a real screen door whit 2 doors.

Robert

[Mike1158]

Thanks for the reminder Robert, proves the rule that we all need a reminder now and again.  I also need to read the manual each time I come back to this program.
Have a great new year folks, I reckon 2008 is going to be pretty good.

[Allan Chesney]

The you can do the interior walls, on tip turn of auto floor and ceiling.

Robert,

You mentioned "turning off auto floor and ceiling".  I have not found anywhere to turn on 'auto ceilings' (which I would like to do). Have you found that setting somewhere?

Allan

[Nik]

Hi, 'Classic' FP had problems with walls of different thicknesses meeting. They were a recipe for 'jaggies', large or small 'spurs' that prevented further work on intersection until resolved...

IIRC, there were two partial 'fixes'. First route was to use a stub wall to 'glue' the join. Second was to use a grid size that anchored *both* thicknesses' centre-lines...

'Bigger Hammer' alternative was to shrug, 'layer' several locations, and over-lay reluctant lengths of walls as free-standing objects. This sometimes required invisible walls attached to the free-standers to make them into skinny 'rooms' to access surface properties etc...

[FX: Shudder...  I *hated* working with Invisible Walls.]