Creating Quad & Sheerline Gutters

[Burgo]

Is it possible to create the attached gutter profiles in TFP or can the profiles be imported and added to the profile list and gutter members created in the normal way.

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Bob,

It is not really any different than described in this post re cornice: http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,2305.msg10759.html#msg10759.

In fact both profiles are there really (or at least close enough probably) - the U Channel and the Gutter profiles. They do not have the curly bits on the edges or grooves along the length but they could be done with an image (as below on the U channel) which may be significant as curves can create memory issues (on older PC's).

If the curly bits and grooves are important then it is a matter of drawing it as described in the other post but it needs to have thickness, two sides to every side, as you see in the U and Gutter examples in the profiles. All profiles are an 'enclosed space'. I single line will work but only one side creates a shadow. The shadow creaed by the front of the gutter is what creates a shadow on the facia, the bottom and back of the gutter won't, it is as if the sun goes through the inside of the gutter.

Personally I would just use the existing two profiles and use a texture (Skirting or Siding) to create the lines you want. Use Size Override and Mapping to move the texture up and down the gutter to get the shadows where you need them.

Allan

[Burgo]

Thanks Allan for the advice. Creating profiles is a bit on an art, although with practice it no doubt will become easier. I managed to create a profile of sheerline gutter and will now have a go at creating a quad gutter.

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Bob,

Looks good! As you said it is a bit of an art - especially when you start using curves parallel to each other.

In Envisioneer it is actually much easier as you can create a profile shape using the 2D line drawing tools and use that to make the profile.

Allan

[Burgo]

Allan, can profiles created in Envisioneer with the 2d line tool be exported to TFP and used to make profiles?
I note that the new version of Envisioneer 8 contains a new navigation feature which allows easy scrolling in 3d. I hope that TFP adopts this feature in the next upgrade.

Navigator
A new onscreen controller brings all frequently used viewing and navigation tools together in one place, providing an easy to use, exciting motion simulation experience. Similar to a handheld video game controller, the Navigator allows you to switch between 2D and 3D, zoom and pan, and navigate in 3D using direct-response technology.

    Roll the interactive trackball with your mouse in any direction to zoom and pan in 2D, or to move and rotate in 3D
    Quickly toggle between 2D Plan view, 3D Camera view, and 3D
    QuickViews with a single mouse click.
    In 2D Plan view,quickly access Zoom and Pan controls without
    your mouse leaving the control area
    In 3D Camera view, quickly access the Zoom, Pan, Look Around,
    Fly Around and Walk Around tools
    In 3D QuickView, choose between nine preset orthogonal views
    for instant orthographic viewing, then use the 3D navigation controls
    to further align your viewing position.

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Bob.

The profile can be created in Env and exported as a BIM to use in TFP. If you are really having trouble with these, give me the dimensions and section shape you want and I will make them for you. I can use the too anyway.

I suspect TFP will get the Navigator as it is generally the same Env Essentials, and that is ticked in their list.

Allan

[Burgo]

Thanks  Allan, I will take you up on your offer. You almost need to be a Rhodes Scholar to work out how to make curved profiles in TFP or perhaps it is easy if shown.
The gutter profiles are attached. Many thanks, Bob

[Burgo]

Allan the dimensions of the Sheeline square gutter is A = 80mm B=140mm & C=124mm

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Bob,

Why ever do they have different ones for the different states!!! I don't believe it - does not seem very ecenomically practical! 
Anyway, which state are you in? I think I asked you when you first joined the forum but can't remember now.  I will probably do them all but will do the ones you want first.

By the way, TFP's tool for creating a new profile is identical to the one in Envisioneer but the latter now has a second way that is part of it's 2D construction drawing tools. It is similar to the Layout toolbar in the 3D component of both programs but it has an additional 'polyline' tool, that can be used to draw the profile - so it is basically click, click, click etc around the shape you want - much easier - no need for the scholarship!

Allan

[Doug.S]

I have TCAD but it is old (ver. 10 or 12 I think), so I doubt it exports as a .bim file format. I have not upgraded to newer version as I have virtually no need for TCAD; maybe once a year.

But if TCAD (newer) can export an object such as a gutter from an input of data oer drawings shown above, can it also be done from importing a .ai file which is a 2D line (usually ver. 3 of .ai; but may be newer too?) ?

Reason I ask is I use Illustrator and .ai line files (spline curves; often bezier, but there are other tools too)
are easily created there or in Hexagon (can trace over the .jpg image) and the line(s) can be extruded in many 3D programs (simple or compound) to make 2.5D objects.

So I'll be looking to see what the TCAD or TFP .bim file for a gutter looks like.

And to see if TCAD can import a .ai (or similar) file to easily generate the .bim file.

Lines are much more easily generated for profiles in those programs than in TFP/Envisioneer.

[Burgo]

Allan, I live near Coffs Harbour in NSW so just do the NSW version thanks. Just a thought, If I draw the profile in Turbocad, I should be able to import the DWG file into the TPF catalogue. Can this be done or am I barking up the wrong tree again.
Many thanks, Bob

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Bob,

No that would not work but if you want, you could draw the profile and export to DWG (or DXF may be better) then I will import into the Envisioneer worksheet. It should then directly convert to a member.
Actually though it is a very simple process in Envisioneer to draw the profile shape, the only 'hard' part about it is getting all the measurements right. The profile does not use the measurements as such but only uses the proportional relationship between them - the actual dimensions are set in TFP.

Lines are much more easily generated for profiles in those programs than in TFP/Envisioneer.

Doug, The line tool used to create a profile in Envisioner 7 Worksheets is nothing like the one in the 3D model view (as seen also in TFP). It is a simple line, such as used in the other programs you refer to or any lines you import. You just draw the shape and Convert to a Member and that's it. Nothing to extrude, it just becomes the profile of the member, so you can insert, drag it to any length (like walls), go around corners and it will mitre automatically, snap to walls and remains totally flexible in width, depth, height, length, angle and rotation. It can be set to automatically break (at intersecting walls for example), you can put a break in it (like in a wall), you can have square or angled ends or you can snap it to the slope of a roof or ceiling, all with a single click. It is an extremely flexible object and very easily created.

Bob, If you want to create the profile, remember it must be enclosed - in other words you have to draw the outside surface and the inside surface (parallel to each other) with the ends joined also (thickness of the metal in effect). It also must not overlap itself or have bits sticking out - in other words one continuous line following around the inside of the gutter and then the outside, finishing back at the starting point and joining exactly at that point. I imagine that is easy to do in TCad (presumably it has some sort of line snap as TFP/Env does) - if not just let me know and I will do it in Env. Draw them as in your images, with the BACK of the gutter on the left - that way it will snap to the wall the right way around.

Allan

[Burgo]

Allan, I played around with the profile in TFP and came up with the attached results, not perfect but fairly close. I am sure you can improve on my effort.
Thanks Bob

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Bob,

Sorry about the delay - had a lot of things happening the last few days.

I have done the top profile of your set, the Hi-Front - will do the Lo-Front in the morning (actually it already is morning - make that later in the morning!    ) - I hope it is what you wanted.

I have attached a BIM file that will install the profile and gutter member.

Allan

[Burgo]

Many thanks Allan, great job.