So my house has a dormer in the middle of the roof with no gable. It is on a 3/12 pitch from the ridge to the fascia. I am having trouble creating the side walls to work right. See the pictures attached to get an idea what I mean. Any ideas?
Joe
Hi Joe,
Welcome to the forum!
Sorry about the delay in replying. I was hoping someone who uses dormers may answer but it seems not. You do not see them much in Australia so I use them little.
I had a bit of a play with them and it worked fine for me. On a test roof try the settings in the dialogs in the images and see how that goes.
Once you insert it you may have to lower thre Support Height on the front edge to raise the roof to meet the ridge.
Let us know how it goes.
Allan
That did the trick. Thanks!
Unfortunately I can't use the built in easy roof function for my roof as it really doesn't like to use gable ends at all. I do have a pretty complex roof though as I am putting an addition on to an existing structure. After initially letting it generate a roof I had to convert to surfaces to get the roof right. The roof is where I have put in all the effort and it is litterally days worth of work to get it right. I keep thinking to myself the whole time that the auto roof generator part of tfp 15 really should be much more robust and have more options to make it easier. Seems like the auto roof generate is pretty basic and doesn't generate real world roofs. Dormers are easy enough to make, but only being able to able to apply them to surfaces is very frustrating. Having to auto generate a roof that is under the existing surface roof, then play with it to get it to match the surface roof, just so you can place a dormer and delete the auto generated roof after that, seems awefully silly and a lot of extra steps. Just create the dormer and let me stick it to whatever roof I want.
Hi Joe,
A few things I don't understand from your comments. It seems like you have had a lot of messing around to get it to work, which does not make sense to me. To try to work out why so had so many problems I have a few questions/comments:
Quote from: joeyg1973 on June 15, 2010, 03:22:18 AM
Unfortunately I can't use the built in easy roof function for my roof as it really doesn't like to use gable ends at all.
I have never had any issue with gables - what probelms did you have?
Quote from: joeyg1973 on June 15, 2010, 03:22:18 AM
After initially letting it generate a roof I had to convert to surfaces to get the roof right.
Same question really - why did you have to convert to surfaces? I have used Surfaces to create other objects but have never had to use them for the roof.
Quote from: joeyg1973 on June 15, 2010, 03:22:18 AM
Dormers are easy enough to make, but only being able to able to apply them to surfaces is very frustrating.
Dormers are normally applied to a Roof not to a Surface. Dormers have always existed in the program but Surfaces were only introduced in V14 so I can't understand why you could only apply them to a Surface.
Quote from: joeyg1973 on June 15, 2010, 03:22:18 AM
Having to auto generate a roof that is under the existing surface roof, then play with it to get it to match the surface roof, just so you can place a dormer and delete the auto generated roof after that, seems awefully silly and a lot of extra steps.
Sorry but I can't think of any reason why you would have to do this.
Quote from: joeyg1973 on June 15, 2010, 03:22:18 AM
Just create the dormer and let me stick it to whatever roof I want.
That is all I have ever done and is all you should need to do.
I am just wondering if you may have done something unusual in the first place, that has led to all these extra steps to get to where you wanted to be. TFP is capable of creating some very complex roof structures with multiple gables, dormers and even wave shapes, so I can't understand all the difficulties you seem to have had. I have added a couple of images, copied from the website (not mine), that show some complex gables and dormers. These were done before the Surfaces tool was provided.
Maybe you could post the actual BLD file so we can maybe identify the problem?
Allan
I admit I am probably doing something wrong. This is the first time I am working with a program like this. I am including the bld file I currently have been working on with the surfaces roof that I created so you can see what I am working on here. I am also including a link to some pictures of the roof on the house. It would be nice to know where I went wrong with the built in roof function so that it would be easier to use this program in the future.
http://picasaweb.google.com/joejgarcia/JoeSHouse?feat=directlink
Joe
Hi Joe! In my first view of your drawings it look rather good and you have done a great job. Then I compare it with the photos of the your house I have some questions:
First of all what version of TFP do you use 14 or 15? Because I don't know if you can open a drawing from 15 in 14. If you have version 14 I can't send you a bld-file saved on version 15, but I can always made screenshots.
Second, Is the foundation of the garage lower then rest of the foundations or it level? It looks like that part of your house is on a lower level compare with rest of your house.
My suggestion is that you add one location for the garage-section, and to change floor location so you use a lower height of walls but full height of Ceiling.
With help of Allan, me and some other great users in this forum will we guide you forward, but not take away the fun of drawing from you, because this is a very fun program to mess around with. :)
/Robert
Quote from: Robert W - "robban" on June 15, 2010, 04:49:54 PM
Hi Joe! In my first view of your drawings it look rather good and you have done a great job. Then I compare it with the photos of the your house I have some questions:
Thanks for the compliment on the job I have done so far. This is the first time I have ever used a program like this before. I intend to learn how to use turbo cad after this as it will be nice to be able to draw out the stuff I make in my machine shop rather than use the ol' calculated eye ball like I do now.
Quote from: Robert W - "robban" on June 15, 2010, 04:49:54 PM
First of all what version of TFP do you use 14 or 15? Because I don't know if you can open a drawing from 15 in 14. If you have version 14 I can't send you a bld-file saved on version 15, but I can always made screenshots.
TFP Home and Garden Pro v15
Quote from: Robert W - "robban" on June 15, 2010, 04:49:54 PM
Second, Is the foundation of the garage lower then rest of the foundations or it level? It looks like that part of your house is on a lower level compare with rest of your house.
Looking at the front of the house, the basement level that is a poured concrete wall and the structure above that is original 1927 house. Everything to the right of that is the new addition. The garage/machine shop is lower than the original house's basement.
Quote from: Robert W - "robban" on June 15, 2010, 04:49:54 PM
My suggestion is that you add one location for the garage-section, and to change floor location so you use a lower height of walls but full height of Ceiling.
Say what? :) Going to have to explain what you mean by location. Preferably give me an example what you are talking about. Actually now that I think about it you are going to have to explain that whole quote. :)
Quote from: Robert W - "robban" on June 15, 2010, 04:49:54 PM
With help of Allan, me and some other great users in this forum will we guide you forward, but not take away the fun of drawing from you, because this is a very fun program to mess around with. :)
/Robert
Cool, I need the guidance.
Joe
Hi Joe,
I agree with Robert, you have done a great job so far as it really quite a complex project!
First I thought I would just answer your question on Locations. Basically you have really got the idea of them, as you have a Foundation, Ground and Second Floor - these are Locations but as Robert suggested you need one for the garage and in fact you need a separate location for every floor level and wall height.
The Location basically control your third dimension, they will control all the vertical distances, so need to be set correctly to start with or you will have problems later on. Usually rooms in a building that have different height walls or a floor that is a different height above (or below) the ground, should be on a different Location, with its own specific vertical measurements.
Locations work like this (using typical dimensions to illustrate the Wall Heights and Floor Levels [top surface of the floor]).
1.) Terrain is Zero (and the various levels are calculated from there)
2.) The Floor Level for your foundation Floor would be minus 8' as it is 8 ' below the terrain (presumably).
3.) The Foundation walls are 8'.
4.) The Ground floor is 1' thick (by default) and sits on top of the foundation walls but has now gone above the terrain by 1' so the Floor Level of the Ground Floor Location is 1'
5.) The Ground floor has 8' walls
6.) On top of the walls is the 1' thick floor for the Second Floor, so the Floor Level for the Second Floor Location is 9' above the terrain.
7.) The Second Floor walls could be a very different matter if the ceiling slopes and is lower than 8' at the edges. So... how high is the lowest VERTICAL part? If the ceiling slopes right to the floor, then the VERTICAL wall height should be set to 1 inch for example or less (turn off the baseboard in this case) and the ceiling height should be the same. If the VERTICAL part is 2' then that is the Wall Height for the Second Floor Location should be set to 2'. The Head Height (door height - 6'8") should remain the same as the head height for the other floors. Make sure that the walls are set to 'Extend to Roof' so, although they are only 1" high (or 2' high) when you draw them, they will extend to the roof, so you can still insert doors and windows.
8.) If you have another level in the home, eg, the garage is 2' lower than the foundation floor, then create a new Location as Robert suggested, called Garage for example and so the floor level for the garage would be -10', with 2' walls and 6'8" Head height. If it has a separate ceiling then it should be set to 10' or whatever height it is above the garage floor.
As far as your existing Locations are concerned there is not a lot wrong. If the foundation is below ground level, then the easiest fix is to move the Terrrain up by 8' (or whatever the distance is- Settings/ Programme Settings / Terrain) and leave the existing Foundation and Ground Floor Levels as they are (ground at 9'). If you are really adventurous you could slope the terrain so that it matches the real thing.
The Second Floor Floor Level however may not be right. If the Ground Floor walls are 8' then the Floor Level for the Second floor should be 18' - if this floor is also 1' thick (8' Foundation walls + 1' floor thickness + 8' Ground Floor walls + 1' floor = 18' above zero). If the Second Floor does not sit on top of the ground floor but is lower, then it may be in the right place at 15'1 1/2". If you leave the Foundation at zero, then make the new garage location -2' (or whatever the correct measurement is).
I hope that clarifies the Locations for you (or does it confuse it? ;) )
When it comes to the roof it sits on top of the walls of the location where it is inserted. So the roof should be inserted on each location that has the highest walls above the terrain. Obviously you do not insert a roof on the Foundation location as it does not go to the roof. The ground floor MAY go to the roof IF the second floor does not cover the whole of the building. In this case the roof would be on two locations, the Ground Floor and the Second floor - by default the second floor would cause the ground floor roof to dissappear where it is overlapped by the second floor roof. Does that make sense?
If you don't get it all please ask again.
By the way, you will find TurboCAD is MUCH more complex that TFP. I gave up with it - too big a learning curve for me at my age I'm afraid - haven't got the time, or the patience anymore!
Allan
That makes sense. I tried what you suggested about the second floor previously for the part above the garage which has a floor level of 15' 1 1/2" in order to accommodate an automotive lift in the garage below which has a ceiling height of 14'2" (the default floor width is 11 1/2" which makes sense when you take into account 1/2" drywall ceiling) would only form around the outside of the exterior walls and not extend up up no matter what I set the wall or ceiling height to which is why I am using the current solution I have. I set the second floor to 0" for both wall and ceiling height and just extended the ground floor walls up and that worked. I have tried every possible way to get this thing to work that I could think of and so far this is all that has worked. I will try again using location and see if that makes a difference. If anybody can get it to work the way Allen describes with my bld file be my guest.
I set the house above the terrain because I figured I would adjust that later as you described and then play with the terrain to make the hill that the house is built into in the back.
I need to make the awning over the garage and I have no clue how I am going to do that, any ideas?
Hi Joe,
Last thing first - the awning can be just a surface or you can use a roof (on it's own Location so it does not get caught up in the other roof). Set the slope on the front edge and set the other three edges to gable. The roof location should have the walls height set to the height of the roof so it sits at the right height.
The best way with the main roof is probably to do it by drawing the roof 'by Picking Points. This way you can force the ridge to stay in place and use the right click, "Move Edge - Maintain Support Height (if you are 'cutting into the roof') and Adjust Support Height if you are extending the roof. The edge this creates you make into a gable and set the overhang to a small figure so that the facia still shows.
Hopefully the image will show you what I mean.
You can then add the dormers.
Allan
OK this worked for the most part. What still doesn't work is getting the back of the old house to be a gable. Take a look at the picture in the link below to see what I mean.
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_70CIV9qUhba9YZuvFsvAw?feat=directlink
I will try the awning in a few seconds. Is there an easy way to cut an opening in the ceiling for a skylight? It works fine in the roof, but when you put up a ceiling, they get blocked out by the it and I have to go back and use the ol' calculated eyeball and cut the opening in the ceiling by hand after I have extended the skylights frame depth to 9".
Joe
Quote from: Allan Chesney on June 16, 2010, 11:42:03 AM
Hi Joe,
Last thing first - the awning can be just a surface or you can use a roof (on it's own Location so it does not get caught up in the other roof). Set the slope on the front edge and set the other three edges to gable. The roof location should have the walls height set to the height of the roof so it sits at the right height.
The best way with the main roof is probably to do it by drawing the roof 'by Picking Points. This way you can force the ridge to stay in place and use the right click, "Move Edge - Maintain Support Height (if you are 'cutting into the roof') and Adjust Support Height if you are extending the roof. The edge this creates you make into a gable and set the overhang to a small figure so that the facia still shows.
Hopefully the image will show you what I mean.
You can then add the dormers.
Allan
Hi Joe,
Quote from: joeyg1973 on June 16, 2010, 12:56:52 PM
What still doesn't work is getting the back of the old house to be a gable.
To get the gable to work you must make a section of the edge to turn into a gable. Practice this on a test roof. Insert the roof and leave it highlighted so you can see the arrows. Right click and select Break and click on one edge of the roof about a third along the edge. Now do the same again two thirds along the same edge. On that edge you should now have 3 arrows, one in the middle and one each side. They should all still be Hip. Select the middle arrow so that only this one is green. Now right click and change it to Gable. A gable should appear in that edge of the roof.
In your case the gable goes right to one edge and is butted up against another roof that sticks out further so this make it a little more tricky. Essentially you do the same thing as before but your two breaks need to be very close to the two edges of that section, but do not put them at the edges at first. Do it like this:
1.) Highlight the roof so you can see the arrows.
2.) Selexct the edge where you want the Gable so that only this arrow is green
3.) Right click and select Properties and set the roof overhang to 1" for example (Normally this would not be necessay, but because one edge of your gable butts up against a roof that extends further, if the overhang is there it will extend into the other roof, cause it to join and probably create a monstrosity of a roof).
4.) Now insert the two breaks at one third and two thirds along that section.
5.) Select the centre arrow so that only it is green, right click and select Gable. (you should now have a gable in the centre of that section)
6.) SAVE !!!
7.) Zoom in on each of the Breaks and drag the Break as close to the corner and other roof as you can get without it snapping into the other edge. With careful movement of these breaks (zoom in to get it as big as you can) you can drag the gable out wide to fill the space.
8.) Because we made the overhang tiny at the start (so that the new Break sections had a tiny overhang) you will now want to select the Gable (make sure it is ONLY the gable that is green) and set the overhang back to what it should be.
9.) If you end up with a tiny corner cut out of the outside corner of the roof, then also reset the Overhang on the break arrow that is pointing UP the slope of the GABLE only.
The image is about how it should end up.
Again if you can't follow that just ask.
I am not aware of any way to cause the skylights to cut the ceiling. This should be relatively easy however becasue you should be able to drag the edges of the hole you cut so that they fit around the skylight and in same way as you drag the edges of the roof.
By the way you can add your own photos here on the forum if you want - it is not restricted to TFP images.
Allan
I will give this a try later today. As far as the skylights are concerned 2 things make what you suggest an issue. 1) Skylights have no attachment points on the corners to cut around. It only has one attachment point in the center and a turn point on one end. 2) The cut out in the ceiling is a different size and location from the roof cutout.
Hi Joe and Allan! Sorry that I not have com back with a answer before, I have had difficult to reach the forum from my computer, I have no connection with IMSIdesign or the forum from my own IPS, this answer have I write on a computer in the town library.
I will say thanks top you Allan , that you answer in my place abut what I mean with location.
I hope I soon will reach the forum again from my home computer, I will try again to day.
/ Robert
Hi Robert,
You must be lost without a computer connection at home. Certainly a pain to have to go to the library. Hope you get it sorted out soon.
Hi Joe,
Re cutting out the ceiling for the skylights: I will be honest I have never used a skylight before - we get too much sun here so they are very rarely seen and even the ones that are are so heavily covered with replective film that they may as well not be there!!.
However I inserted one to see what the issues were, and I can see that it is not quite straight forward when you have a cathedral ceiling because of the alignment of the two. Nevertheless I was able to do it quite easily as follows:
1.) Widen the frame of the skylight so that it protrudes through the ceiling
2.) Use the Veiw Filter and Lock the roof so that you do not acidentally select it.
3.) Select the ceiling, right click and select Cut Opening
4.) Draw the opening you want close to the skylight.
5.) From inside, drag the edges of the opening outline and watch the edges of the opening itself move and stop when they match the frame of the skylight.
Obviously it is only trial and error draging the edges to match them up but if you zoom in really close it is easy to do.
Having said all that there may be other ways of doing it easier - as I said I have never used one before. If there is another way I am sure someone will let us know.
Allan
Hi Allan! I have a connection with the forum from my home computer now it look like the IT-staff on IMSIDesign have solve the problem , why I been look out,a great thanks IT-staff and suport :D, I will now, hopefully, have connection with IMSIDesign and the forum. ;D ;D
So now if you not already have solve the problem I will take a look to. I will check out what I have missed now.
Hi Robert,
Glad to hear you are up and running again!!!
Allan
Hi Allan and Joe! To use a skylight you need to have a cathedral roof if it shall look good. I have attach a sample bld of a box with 2 floors, wall height on 2nd floor is 1000 mm, I have set the roofs support height too 1000 mm, then set the ceiling to cathedral Skirth width to 0 mm for both the straight and gable and for the straight part of the ceiling slope angle 30 deg, same slope as the roof. I have to set the elevation to 1000 mm for the ceiling.
Attach the skylight to the roof, the select the ceiling and cut opening around the skylight.
The content is then you use a skylight use a cathedral ceiling and proper angles for the slope.
hope this will help / Robert
Quote from: Allan Chesney on June 16, 2010, 11:42:03 AM
Hi Joe,
Last thing first - the awning can be just a surface or you can use a roof (on it's own Location so it does not get caught up in the other roof). Set the slope on the front edge and set the other three edges to gable. The roof location should have the walls height set to the height of the roof so it sits at the right height.
The best way with the main roof is probably to do it by drawing the roof 'by Picking Points. This way you can force the ridge to stay in place and use the right click, "Move Edge - Maintain Support Height (if you are 'cutting into the roof') and Adjust Support Height if you are extending the roof. The edge this creates you make into a gable and set the overhang to a small figure so that the facia still shows.
Hopefully the image will show you what I mean.
You can then add the dormers.
Allan
Hi Allen,
I went back and added some windows and stuff then went to put on the roof as you suggested. If you look at the picture below you can see the issue. Apparently when I tried this the first time, adjusting the support height while moving the wall caused the back wall to shrink and I didn't notice it when I didn't have the windows. Well I am getting what you see in the attached picture. I am also including the bld file too.
Hi Joe
Have I understand you rigth will the location settings be like this:
Old hous with fundation level 0' only for thev drawing
Fundation =0' wall =8'
Grounlevel =0+8'= 9' wall=8'
Second floor =0'+8'+9'+1'=18' wall=0'
--------------------------------------------
Can it be rigth to asume that the fundation of th garage is abut 1,7' below the old foundation
Garage=-1,7' wall 14,2'
2nd floor garage = -1,7'+14,2'+1'=13,5' wall ?
--------------------------------------------------
This will give 5 diffrent location
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If this look OK, I can do a outline of your house and roof and floors, but the interior walls etc. have you to do your self.
I wonder abut the stair up to the room above the garage, is the staircase walls go all the way down to the garage floor
you wrote
SNIP---for the part above the garage which has a floor level of 15' 1 1/2" in order to accommodate an automotive lift in the garage below which has a ceiling height of 14'2" (the default floor width is 11 1/2" which makes sense when you take into account 1/2" drywall ceiling)
the default floor cealing height 11 ,5'??
/Robert
Hi Joe,
Quote from: joeyg1973 on June 24, 2010, 02:23:40 PM
I went back and added some windows and stuff then went to put on the roof as you suggested. If you look at the picture below you can see the issue. Apparently when I tried this the first time, adjusting the support height while moving the wall caused the back wall to shrink and I didn't notice it when I didn't have the windows.
This indicates a problem, with the wall height as specified on the Ground Floor Location.
First the walls are protruding through the roof becasue they are at a fixed Level of 8' - they should be set to Extend to Roof. This will cause them to terminate at the roof, as in my image. The Second Floor wall will have to be moved back as it will protrude also as will the flat ceiling on the Ground Floor.
This obviously still leaves the windows protruding. Windows automatically insert at the preset Location Head Height. Either these windows need to be lowered (right click - Elevate) or
ALL the walls on the Ground Floor are
too low. As per the questions on the image, these walls are set to 8' but how high are these walls IN REALITY? If the main wall on the right of my image is really 8' and if the roof pitch is the same, then it follows that the ones on the left (that are extending out from the building) must be lower than 8' and hence the window problem.
I suspect that the walls on the right should be higher (Ground Floor Location setting), maybe 10', then the extended walls will be 8' maybe and the windows will fit. That will have to be determined first also if Robert is going to recreate it for you or he will run into the same issue. As the Locations control all the vertical heights in the model, it is essential that these be correct for everything to fit properly. Changing the Floor Level (Surface of the floor above the Terrain) for a Location, will cause the whole floor to move up or down and the things on that floor, but changing wall height and the other location settings will only affect new walls etc added later - it will not correct existing ones. Right click, Replace, may change wall heights to the new setting, (or delete and redo them) making sure they are set to Extend to Roof.
If this wall height setting on the ground floor is the problem (i.e. it should be more than 8'), then it is going to affect the roof too, as it will normally insert at the original wall height. If you have done a lot of work on the roof, then you may be able to select the edges that are at the original 8' setting and in Properties / Detail and Support, change the Support Height to the new wall height figure. The Support Height of the roof edge over the extended (reduced) walls will have to separately changed to increase the Support Height accordingly (these walls are now just under 5'). This could be a tricky process so make sure you make a copy before you start!!!
Allan
Quote from: Allan Chesney on June 24, 2010, 10:46:33 PM
This indicates a problem, with the wall height as specified on the Ground Floor Location.
As per the questions on the image, these walls are set to 8' but how high are these walls IN REALITY?
Allan
8' from the floor to the ceiling walls throughout the whole ground floor with the exception being the garage as it doesn't have a ground floor, just foundation and second floor. I just set the walls to fixed to emphasize the problem.
Joe
Quote from: Robert W - "robban" on June 24, 2010, 06:46:04 PM
Hi Joe
Have I understand you rigth will the location settings be like this:
Old hous with fundation level 0' only for thev drawing
Fundation =0' wall =8'
Grounlevel =0+8'= 9' wall=8'
Second floor =0'+8'+9'+1'=18' wall=0'
--------------------------------------------
Can it be rigth to asume that the fundation of th garage is abut 1,7' below the old foundation
Garage=-1,7' wall 14,2'
2nd floor garage = -1,7'+14,2'+1'=13,5' wall ?
--------------------------------------------------
This will give 5 diffrent location
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If this look OK, I can do a outline of your house and roof and floors, but the interior walls etc. have you to do your self.
I wonder abut the stair up to the room above the garage, is the staircase walls go all the way down to the garage floor
you wrote
SNIP---for the part above the garage which has a floor level of 15' 1 1/2" in order to accommodate an automotive lift in the garage below which has a ceiling height of 14'2" (the default floor width is 11 1/2" which makes sense when you take into account 1/2" drywall ceiling)
the default floor cealing height 11 ,5'??
/Robert
Robert,
I so need this help so thank you in advanced!
If the old basement is at 0, the new one is 1'4" lower. The ceiling on the old basement is rather short, only 6'8" total in height. I know this because I have banged my head more than once on a door jamb down there. The floor has buckled over the years so it isn't consistently that hieght. I know this because I have banged my head more than once on the door jambs down there. I am 6'2". :o The new basement is 8' till you hit the garage at which point it is 14'2".
See the pic attached for what I have for location settings currently. I went to the house to double check the settings. The garage part is 15' 1 1/2". The settings I have in that pic for the second floor are wrong.
The stairs are all 3'6" wide. Here is what I have for measurements for the ones going to the part above the second floor garage. The first step on the first floor starts 1' 1/2" foot unlike what I currently have in the drawings I put up as I haven't gotten around to fixing it. 6' 3 1/2" L x 3' 6" W x 5' 8 1/2" H are the measurements I got when I measured them.
8' walls throughout the old and the new house with the exception of the part over the garage which is funky.
The dormer above the garage in the front has a support height above the second floor of 8'4" from the measurements I have taken and is 7'4" wide. The large one in the front over the house is 4'11 3/4" support height over the ceiling floor and has a width of 15'4". The flat dormer on the back is 20'8" wide and the support height on that should be the same as the roof ridge. All of the roof is 8/12 with the exception of the flat dormer on the back which is 3/12.
And to throw another wrench in the works I probably need a location for above the new house excluding the garage as we see a lot of wasted useful space there too. We are not going to go into this though for a few years at least.
Garage door is 18'x10'. ;D
I am also including pictures from my current bld that show exactly how the roof on the back looks where the old house meets the new house. Try as I might, I have always had to convert to surfaces to fine tune it.
BTW I prefer to have the new basement and garage at 0 because
1) they are on the same level
2) I need to put a garage door on the garage which needs to be level with the ground
3) The terrain editing tools are not intuitive and for me at least seem to work better when I build up rather than cut down. ISMI should take a look at how ridiculously easy it is to edit terrain in one of the Sim City games. Select and just pull or push up or down. Ridiculously easy to use and very intuitive.
4) my house it built into/on a hill with the back part in the ground and facing the house, the left side is also under the ground but is sloped down about 1' from the back and it gradually slopes down to the right till it hits a retaining wall next to the driveway which is 3' and everything from there to the right of the wall is flat. From the front of the house to the street it keeps the same profile.
Oh yeah 2x10's in the new house basement, with 3/4" plywood as flooring add in 3/4" hardwood floor and you get the 11 1/2" that TFP sets as the default for flooring. It's the same for floor in the part over the garage. 2x7 (weird size I know but that is what they are, and yes I triple checked that) for the ceiling in the new part of the house. The old part is a mess there 2x4 for the most part because it was built in 1927 and 2x6 added in to add support and meet code. Just go with 2x6.
If you need any more info let me know.
Joe
Hi Joe Thanks let me get a cuple of days so will I be back with a outline of the house.
I have 6 diffrent location 3 for the old house and 2+1 for the garage and dorm.
Why 2+1 for the garage and dorm, to get 2 diffrent typ of walls for the garage we nead to split wall hight 15'-2" in 2 parts conret walls and wood wall, 1 for the dorm
/Robert
Quote from: Robert W - "robban" on June 25, 2010, 05:52:11 PM
Hi Joe Thanks let me get a cuple of days so will I be back with a outline of the house.
I have 6 diffrent location 3 for the old house and 2+1 for the garage and dorm.
Why 2+1 for the garage and dorm, to get 2 diffrent typ of walls for the garage we nead to split wall hight 15'-2" in 2 parts conret walls and wood wall, 1 for the dorm
/Robert
Hi Robert,
You should go back and reread my previous post. I made some edits to it based on me going over to the house and making some proper measurements. The walls of the garage are actually 15' 1 1/2"
Joe
Hi Joe,
I don't want to confuse things with what Robert is doing for you but just a comment on this:
Quote from: joeyg1973 on June 25, 2010, 12:42:46 PM
8' from the floor to the ceiling walls throughout the whole ground floor with the exception being the garage as it doesn't have a ground floor, just foundation and second floor. I just set the walls to fixed to emphasize the problem.
The critical thing is not the ceiling height but the wall height, as the walls are often higher than the ceiling as they support the roof - the ceiling can be anywhere. However, looking at your latest images it appears you have sorted out the 'windows through the roof' problem.
When I compare your latest image with the earlier photo, it appears there is a second floor in this part of the house too, which gives the extra height to the wall on the gable face. Really the roof should have been on this second floor Location, which should have walls set to zero (assuming the roof slopes to the floor at some point). If the window in the gable is in the same room as the door below, with a cathedral ceiling, then that is a different matter of course. Gets complicated doesn't it trying to convey the whole thing with just words and images?
Anyway I assume Robert will sort that out with you.
By the way, re the Terrain tool: Rumour has it that this is gettting a makeover, so hopefully will become easier. I agree with you that it is not very intuitive, although it is not too bad once you get used to how it works. I have found that the easiest way is to use the Plateau tool and build it up gradually. However that is another story - worry about that later in a different post if you want to.
Hi Robert,
I thought of undertaking what you have proposed but I am going to be pressed for time I suspect over the next few days or weeks. My father-in-law has just passed away, so it looks like we will be heading to the other side of the country (1,500 miles) for the funeral and to help sort things out. We also have our hous up for sale so that is adding extra complications.
Re Joe's garage: Unless a construction materials list was a requirement (which I assume isn't as the house exists already), it may be less confusing and easier, to just use a single location for the garage walls and use the Wainscot Trim tool on the walls to get the separate construction material appearance since that is really its purpose. This can be applied to Interior and Exterior surfaces, with wall Breaks to get the different heights (I seem to recall that the construction type is stepped, so separate locations would not really do it anyway).
Allan
Hi Joe, I missed the new measurement of the wall height in garage, but it don't change that it needs 3 location for the garage, and I use floor level at -2' (-24"). What I have done now is the outline of the house, and put on the roof.
Hi Allan, sorry for your loss. You shall a safe trip and we will see you then you is back. Thanks for the tip.
/Robert
Thanks Robert,
I should still be able to keep in touch with the forum with my phone (and laptop at times) depending on what is happening, but will not have as much time obviously.
Allan
Allan,
I am sorry to hear of your loss as well.
Your pictures with the cut showing that I should have a location for the second floor cleared things right up. That spot above that looks like a dormer with a small window is the original attic space on the old house. I suspect that the window was put in up there a few decades ago and someone was using that area as a bedroom as there was evidence of that from when we cleaned that part out. That space is now less than 1/3 of the original as we converted the front 2/3 of the old house to cathedral ceilings over a great room.
Joe
Thanks Joe for your concern too,
Yes, some of these older houses can be quite tricky getting all the levels set properly, as you are discovering. Makes it harder still when you are not there to see exactly what is going on. Even when you are there it can be hard too, as you sometimes do not know where 'cavities' exist between room walls, floors and ceilings, until you find that interior dimensions to not add up to the outside ones!! The older the place the worse that sort of thing becomes I think.
So it looks like you need at least three locations in both parts of the building, although some are at different levels in the new part from the old. I am sure Robert will be able to sort it out - maybe with the help of you and your tape measure!!
All the best with it.
Allan
Hi Joe!
I'm working on your project. I think we have to split the house in three sections, with separate locations on second floor. This parts will be garage center, and cathedral, I thin this will solve the problem with the roof.. Hope you not is into much hurry. I hope by the end of the week I will have a outline with the correct roof. Can you take on image front of the house so you can see the levels in front of the garage.
Robert
Quote from: Robert W - "robban" on June 28, 2010, 03:03:07 PM
Hi Joe!
I'm working on your project. I think we have to split the house in three sections, with separate locations on second floor. This parts will be garage center, and cathedral, I thin this will solve the problem with the roof.. Hope you not is into much hurry. I hope by the end of the week I will have a outline with the correct roof. Can you take on image front of the house so you can see the levels in front of the garage.
Robert
Hey Robert,
How is it coming along?
The picture you asked for are attached.
Joe
Hi Joe!
I'm not sure if I have get where the split of old and new part of the building, in the image it look like, after the outside stair and towards the garage, and if so. is the foundation for that part at the same level as the garage and basement have 8' ceiling height, fot this part and not 6'-4".
Hi Robert,
Hopefully these pictures will help clarify things for you. Let me split this out better. The "garage"(1) and "new basement"(2) floors are on the level. The "old basement"(3) floor is 1'4" above the "garage"(1) and "new basement"(2) floor. The "first floor house"(4) is above the "old basement"(3) and the "new basement"(2). The "second floor garage"(5) is over the "garage"(1). The "attic"(6) is over the "first floor house"(4) except for where the ceilings are vaulted(see picture Attic Diagram for explanation). I am also including my latest bld file I have been wrestling with because even though the the locations are all wrong and I drew it using techniques against all TFP better practices, the measurements are spot on and you can fly through the house.
Hi Joe! They helped a lot thanks, it clear a lot of question marks for me. I will do some serius work on the outline this week end.
/Robert
Hi Joe!
I have some progress I have not yet any luck with the dorms, so I will not get a completed this weekend. I have made a fast render of the front and back outside, I had a great trouble with gable on the back, I'm not satisfied yet, but the roof is one pice.
The light inside the house on the back com from the window on the front, so it is sun-light, strangs green color on the floor shall be wood floor.
/Robert
Yeap see I told you the roof was really hard to do. You are close on the back side where it joins the old house to the new, but not quite there yet. The left corner on the back of the old house where it meets the new is just soooooo hard to do as one roof. That is why I created the auto roof, put in all the dormers, converted to surfaces and then fixed the back of the old house.
Joe
I see that you mean, I think your way do the roof is the right way to do this, it took nearly 5 hour to get the roof there it's now.
The back of the house is very hard to do, on the image it more look combine of a dorm and gable. Then I think abut it it look like you have add the new roof to the old roof, maybe this is the way to go with TFP also.
First make a gable roof over the old section then after that make the roof over the new section.
I will try that, it will be 2 different location for the roof, old and new.
In the diagram you have draw it look like there is no difference between floor-level in old and new attic, it is correct.
It have been fun to know the story abut the house, it look like a very funny project you working with.
If you have read my profile you can see that I'm is a happy amateur the it come to building layout, the nearest I come to building branch is to drive forklift in one the warehouse to Sweden's largest furniture company.
/Robert
Robert,
Thank you very very much!
I think what you have provided me with right now is great and I can take it from here. Unless you want to figure out the puzzle that is the roof, I do believe that you don't need to keep working on it if you don't want to. As to your question, the attic in the old and the new house are on the same level.
Joe
Hi Joe!
I see it like a challenge to do this type of project both to see the limit of the program and my own limit, so I dont mind to work with your project, it always fun to be to som help. I hope I can com back with more qustions if i need to.
/Robert
Ask all the questions you want. I am more than happy to answer them.