It appears that when you buy the program on the DVD you get more catalogs than when you buy the downloadable version for the same price. Is there a way to download the additional catalogs as well???? I find the available selections, particularly for the furniture are considerably less inclusive than those in Floorplan 3D, version 11 and am looking for more selections.
Bob
You should get the extra content from the vendor that you purchased from.
I cannot post those links here for obvious reasons:) but can assure they are available for download, just not part of the program.exe download.
I've ordered the DVD, and it's on the way. In the meantime, I've downloaded and opened the additional catalogs. Tried opening them (e.g., furniture elements) with TFP to no avail. Tried importing the individual symbol but couldn't get to open the folder. Can someone tell me how to install the elements/catalogs? Thanks. ???
I've purchased and downloaded my version via Digital River, but I've no clue on how to download the additional catalogs. Any suggestions?
Sebastian
I made a phone call and I was sent an e-mail with the links to download the additional catalogs. Hope this helps. I'm still waiting for instructions on how to install them and see what's included.
Instructions for the catalog, hope this helps -
http://www.imsidesign.com/Portals/4/Non_Product_Images/TFP_Support/FAQs/Understanding%20the%20TurboFLOORPLAN%20Catalog.pdf (http://www.imsidesign.com/Portals/4/Non_Product_Images/TFP_Support/FAQs/Understanding%20the%20TurboFLOORPLAN%20Catalog.pdf)
Hi Dave,
If that is understanding catalogues I am out of luck. There is reference to 'buttons' which clearly do not exist or are in locations not mentioned. Please, please corrct this important piece of jargon riddled 'help'.
Mike can you be more specific which button your not finding?
Understanding catalogues, step 5 "The catalogue manager dialogue manager box will appear, click the 'expand button'".
No such button. There appears to be a missing step between steps 4 and 5.
I would like to create a custom catalogue which would include the additional elements on the dvd/cd's of the boxed version but am unable to do so. I have found the guide to be misleading and incomplete.
Would it be possible to get a concise version of this help file with step by step instructions and the apparently missing sections?
No reply?
Hi Mike,
I have two thoughts on Catalogs.
First one is that by using the Catalog manager you risk corrupting the Master Catalog. It is a dialog box with many settings, screw up a couple and you screw up your catalog. So if you are going to go in there, make a back up first.
Second one is that you can add anything you want to the existing right catalog without risking 'screwing things up' to much. So I suggest using it.
I have a couple of thoughts on items that you want to add:
First one is that as far as I know, there is no way to select a bunch of 3DS files or folders and have them automatically be added to the proper 'groups' and then be filtered into the sub groups. For example you have a bed and it should go in Bedroom furniture within the Interior Furniture Group (if you want it that way).
Second aspect of items to add is that they require sizing and materials. Maybe most are sized correctly , maybe some have materials but many items can be sized to mutiple sizes and have multiple material options. There is nothing more frustrating than having sized and added materials that you like in one job , only to find it 'as default' in the next job.
Based on these observations what I've been doing is adding what I need to the right catalog.
You can right click in the Group area and 'add group' naming it Mikes Imported files or Mikes Beds or Mikes Interior Symbols. This can be done generically in an option like Interior Accessories or specific like 'Furniture'.
You then go down below where the list of your symbols are located / Right Click and select 'Add Element' / then select 'Import Geometry from file'. Locate the file you want to add, and if you want , size it and name it.
What I normally do now is add the particular object to the drawing area , this can be blank or a current project. I then go to 3D View and zoom in on the symbol. I check it for size and materials. Sometimes a do a quick render of it to see how it looks.
Here is where the materials option come in handy. If I have a material in the program I like, I set the object to that material. But if I must import a material, I switch to Paint Brush mode and add the new material. I do this the same way I do the objects. I first create a new Group 'Mikes Materials' and then down below(right click) select 'add material' , and here I use the 'use texture' option and navagate to the texture I have saved on my computer.
Now when the material is assigned to the new object I have one complete object , sized / assigned materials and named all added to my custom Group for quick future access.
There is one other command that comes in very handy. It is 'Save Element to Catalog' located in File / Catalogs.
Let me give you an example. I needed a black microwave that fit above a stove. Well they are not in the catalog. So what I did is size the base micro from the program to fit in width pulling the dimensions from Best Buys available microwaves. I then did a Google search for 'black microwaves' and hit the Image option. I found one micro wave company that had a black one and also had a front view of it's unit. I saved the image as a jpg to my computer. I opened it in my photo editor and cropped out some white edging and saved this back to my computer materials files list.
Now I clicked on the microwave that I had resized, in materials I selected the 'front' material option and then reassiged my new 'black microwave image' to it. I had to resize the image in TFPlan and had to move it up / dwn / left / right to get it perfectly aligned.
Then I renamed it 'Micro Jks Black 1'.
Then I used the Save Element to Catalog command, clicked on the micro , said yes when asked if I was sure and I now have it for use for other projects without disturbing what was there as default. I did the same with the white ovens from the program.
I guess what I'm saying is that just adding a symbol isn't enough. You must consider it's size / materials / name and location and ease of access.
I find using the right catalog and the save element option to be more forgiving / just as quick and allows me to actually look at my results before I move on to the next file.
Example of Micro and Oven attached.
Z
ps I noticed I didn't have the oven door aligned correctly. I went back to the material and used the arrows to move it left and get it aligned. I then used the 'save element' option and it said I already had a file named the same , do I want to save a copy of it. I said yes and the program added a (1) after the name. I can now go back and delete the original or covert it to a 'gas' range top and have it as black gas range'.
Thanks Jack. I sincerely hope that the instructions are clarified via official sources soon.
I'm using the trial version TFP12pro.
I ordered and received the "paid for" version TFP12pro DVD today and explored the "extras" which include more catalogs.
I copied those new catalogs to the trial installed location for catalogs.
I started TFP and made a simple house and wanted to try some of the new items in the extras catalogs...so did menu/file/catalogs/open catalog and selected a catalog just installed and got the attached warning box.
This makes no sense? How could the FP.bld file be from an earlier version...I just generated the .bld file. All the files are TFP12.0 How could I have a version problem?
Alternatively if its talking about the .db file...its for TFP12; why would I have to convert it?
And, what is the best choice to make from the list? I'm not screwing up a catalog just to try it out. Need help here.
Is this just because of trial version? Or can I expect similar problem when I uninstall the trial and install the paid version?
My trial TFP version is 12.00.C1.551 Is the paid for version different?
Doug.S
Had to give it a try and took the safest approach....make a copy (be sure to give it a new name or it will simply overwrite the old one anyway) and it opens and works.
I did them all (now have used lots of disk space with dups) and they all work ....some good and many are just simple changes.
Oddly tho most have the object far off center from the "drag to move" dot....and the "bulb" of one light I tried was a few feet from the shade so lighting was very odd.
But nice to have some added objects.
Doug.S
Quote from: Sebastian on October 04, 2007, 02:35:07 AM
I've purchased and downloaded my version via Digital River, but I've no clue on how to download the additional catalogs. Any suggestions?
Sebastian
I also purchased and downloaded my version via Digital River, today I follow Ana sugestion ;D and phone to IMSI/Design
800-833-8082 and I got a link by mail, 233 Mb exe-file.
To merge the new catalogs to master copy
1 Make a copy of master catalog!!!!
2 Open Catalog manager whit the copy of master catalog .
3 Click File
4 Click Merge whit Catalog then open the catalog you have chosen. (I have highlite whit yellow the merge area ther you catalog open)
5 Click on Elements and chose for thi exampel Appliances and now you will get this; look at catalog_manager_elements.jpg
6 Now you can chose to import all or specific item. If you chose to import item make shure that you have rigth Grupes.
7. You also have to merg the materials to you master copy. Click on Libraries and choce Materials.
It will look as image catalog_manager_libraries.jpg.
8. If you will import all material make chure that the filter is on all materials. Other vice it is the same as import item
9 Then you done, close the catalog you have open in period 4 do step 3 and 4 but use close.
10 Then click File and then Save Catalog and you ar done.
11 Close the Catalog Manager.
/Robert
Did you by chance check the catalog file size before and after? if so did the catalog size grow substantially larger?
More importantly, did the load/start time of TFP now take longer or the program run slower because of load time for the larger library?
That was the explanation from IMSI design for having multiple catalogs.
I've left the catalogs as separate individual catalogs and use them separately as needed....the only inconvenience is to load, use, then re-load the std master catalog to use it.....cumbersome but easy to do and does take a minute or two.
I'm considering loading all my own special imported .3ds/.skp stuff to one of those other catalogs as they are small now and I'd always know where to find anything I loaded myself. Tho I also have made my own folders for materials etc. in the std catalog. I suspect I should make a backup copy of the std catalog from the start while it works OK and make progressive backups as it changes....just in case it breaks from a bad import and I need to recover...but I have not heard of a catalog disaster here in the forums as yet....so catalogs seem safe/low risk.
I guess we have opportunities to make things work whichever makes sense to each of us on our own for our own way of working.
Quote from: Doug.S on October 31, 2007, 09:53:05 AM
Did you by chance check the catalog file size before and after? if so did the catalog size grow substantially larger? Yes from abut 25 Mb to 97 Mb includ all catalogs and some other thing /Robert
More importantly, did the load/start time of TFP now take longer or the program run slower because of load time for the larger library? Take a litel longer time to start, if the program run slower have I not jet tested /Robert
That was the explanation from IMSI design for having multiple catalogs.
I've left the catalogs as separate individual catalogs and use them separately as needed....the only inconvenience is to load, use, then re-load the std master catalog to use it.....cumbersome but easy to do and does take a minute or two.
I'm considering loading all my own special imported .3ds/.skp stuff to one of those other catalogs as they are small now and I'd always know where to find anything I loaded myself. Tho I also have made my own folders for materials etc. in the std catalog. I suspect I should make a backup copy of the std catalog from the start while it works OK and make progressive backups as it changes....just in case it breaks from a bad import and I need to recover...but I have not heard of a catalog disaster here in the forums as yet....so catalogs seem safe/low risk. Good Idea but you can allways recover it from the cab-file in the download or cd if you know how to do it./ Robert
I guess we have opportunities to make things work whichever makes sense to each of us on our own for our own way of working. Now then I have put all I same catalog seems that be a bad idea, it is better to make a catalog whit favorits take some tim to do but i thinkit will be a good idea /Robert
Be careful when you merge catalogs. You want to keep the file sizes down as much as possible. This is why these objects were kept seperate from the original (default) catalogs.
I would shoot for a max of 25-30mb per catalog max.
Quote from: robban on October 30, 2007, 05:49:50 PM
Quote from: Sebastian on October 04, 2007, 02:35:07 AM
I've purchased and downloaded my version via Digital River, but I've no clue on how to download the additional catalogs. Any suggestions?
Sebastian
I also purchased and downloaded my version via Digital River, today I follow Ana sugestion ;D and phone to IMSI/Design
800-833-8082 and I got a link by mail, 233 Mb exe-file.
To merge the new catalogs to master copy
1 Make a copy of master catalog!!!!
2 Open Catalog manager whit the copy of master catalog .
3 Click File
4 Click Merge whit Catalog then open the catalog you have chosen. (I have highlite whit yellow the merge area ther you catalog open)
5 Click on Elements and chose for thi exampel Appliances and now you will get this; look at catalog_manager_elements.jpg
6 Now you can chose to import all or specific item. If you chose to import item make shure that you have rigth Grupes.
7. You also have to merg the materials to you master copy. Click on Libraries and choce Materials.
It will look as image catalog_manager_libraries.jpg.
8. If you will import all material make chure that the filter is on all materials. Other vice it is the same as import item
9 Then you done, close the catalog you have open in period 4 do step 3 and 4 but use close.
10 Then click File and then Save Catalog and you ar done.
11 Close the Catalog Manager.
/Robert
Hi all,
I didn't need to call them to get the link for the additional catalogs. It was in a long paragraph at the bottom of the order confirmation email they sent. Just my two cent.
Cheers.
Since I bought my TFP from CadCourse on DVD it came with some extras...but the total of all catalogs was 113MB including duplicate master (imperial and metric)....compared to your download at 233MB...
Here is my file info....wondering if you have any different files and/or file sizes....do you have the same/different or more objects?... if we all bought from different places did we receive different catalogs?...and if so, wonder why? and if there is a way for us all to have the maximum objects. Of course by now we all may have some slight variations if we have modified and added objects to our catalogs....(and also how bits are counted: 1024 or 1K)
TurboFLOORPLAN_Master Catalog Metric.bdb 27,105,855 9/4/2007 11:00 AM
TurboFLOORPLAN_Master Catalog.bdb 27,507,780 10/27/2007 7:40 PM
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - Appliances.bdb 336,548 8/9/2007 3:41 PM
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - Fixtures.bdb 28,972,610 8/9/2007 2:19 PM
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - IntAccessories.bdb 14,621,679 8/9/2007 2:34 PM
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - IntFurniture.bdb 19,232,779 8/9/2007 3:54 PM
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - IntLighting.bdb 1,090,251 8/9/2007 3:35 PM
Quote from: Doug.S on November 02, 2007, 11:16:18 AM
Since I bought my TFP from CadCourse on DVD it came with some extras...but the total of all catalogs was 113MB including duplicate master (imperial and metric)....compared to your download at 233MB...
Here is my file info....wondering if you have any different files and/or file sizes....do you have the same/different or more objects?... if we all bought from different places did we receive different catalogs?...and if so, wonder why? and if there is a way for us all to have the maximum objects. Of course by now we all may have some slight variations if we have modified and added objects to our catalogs....(and also how bits are counted: 1024 or 1K)
TurboFLOORPLAN_Master Catalog Metric.bdb 27,105,855 9/4/2007 11:00 AM
TurboFLOORPLAN_Master Catalog.bdb 27,507,780 10/27/2007 7:40 PM
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - Appliances.bdb 336,548 8/9/2007 3:41 PM
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - Fixtures.bdb 28,972,610 8/9/2007 2:19 PM
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - IntAccessories.bdb 14,621,679 8/9/2007 2:34 PM
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - IntFurniture.bdb 19,232,779 8/9/2007 3:54 PM
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - IntLighting.bdb 1,090,251 8/9/2007 3:35 PM
All this is included in the exe-file: TurboFLOORPLAN-Home-Landscape-Pro-Extras.exe 244 992 768 or 233Mb (1024 bits count)
Element Catalogs\ 64 511 277 /6 files
Images - COLOR\ 44 047 598 / 228 files
Images - FRONT\ 125 990 070 /1 001 files
Images - REAR\ 471 922 /2 files
Images for Tracing - GROUND FLOOR\ 85 701 152 /1 000 files
Images for Tracing - SECOND FLOOR\ 39 766 391 / 596 files
----------------
This is included in filecatalog ELEMENT CATALOGS:
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - Fixtures.bdb 28 972 610
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - IntAccessories.bdb 14 621 679
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - IntLighting.bdb 1 090 251
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - Appliances.bdb 336 548
TurboFLOORPLANv12 - IntFurniture.bdb 19 232 779
Understanding the TurboFLOORPLAN Catalog.pdf 257 410
------------------------------------
The Images Catalogs is a diffrent floorplans and In COLOR: 3-d extern images of the buildings I'm not sure if the images is actual photos of existing buildings or make by raytracing the most of this images is of very good quality.
I also get the extras for TurboFLOORPLAN-Home in this are the only the IMAGES catalogs only there are much more in TurboFLOORPLAN-Home-Landscape-Pro-Extras
Robert
It appears we have the same sets of files.
I looked at the color/front/rear/first floor/second floor etc files and also concluded they were for tracing and I didn't have much use for them so they are still on DVD for later use if needed.
I have find out that all etem you have in the drawing must be in the same catalog other vice the program will crach.
This dll have somthing to do whit it msvcr80.dll
If you tray to delet a grupe you have merged whit your "standar" catalog will make the program to crach same dll is interference.
/robban
I have not mixed items from two catalogs lately....but did try that with the trial TFP12 and it worked for me without a crash
I just opened an alternate catalog, selected, inserted, switched back to master catalog, continued work and rendered and saved and it worked OK
I'll try again someday soon to re-verify but I'd expect it to work.
I have not ever merged any catalogs.
Hi, may not be relevant, but could you check which version or versions you have of msvcr80.dll ??
I'm thinking of 'classic' FP's problems with MFC42.dll. That came in several flavours, but one auto-installed by a now-old MS Office (year?) notoriously crashed several other programs due an un-documented tweak...
Searching this XP_SP2 Browser_PC found two msvcr80.dll files, both 612kb, but with versions...
8.00.50727.42
8.00.50727.163
Um, you will have to set 'show hidden/system files' option in search parameters...
(FX: Kicks himself after first search drew blank ;-)
I have the same that com with TFP msvcr80.dll version 8.00.50727.762, I have test a litel more and find out if I set Texture Mapping: to auto most of the time then I render whit raytracing the program crach, but not whit face or box I use dxf import I down load frome Kohler CO, and I make a new catalog bdb-file.
/robban
Quote from: robban on November 12, 2007, 01:52:23 PM
I use dxf import I down load frome Kohler CO, and I make a new catalog bdb-file.
/robban
Does the Kohler Co dxf models render "smoothly"? When I render the TFP toilet and sink (inserted in a bath vanity cabinet) the surfaces (vertex faces) render as small triangles...rather distracting and I did not find any smoothing capability in TFP. I thought about exporting toilet from FP11 and using in TFP or I'd get Kohler stuff if it renders well.
You look for you self, but I thin some is smoothly and some have faces I have not try all ther is in one big zip-file 57 Mb I attach a zippad excel-file whit the range of Kohler dxf-file they have also the same dxf-files in dwg format.
/robban
Thanks for your post and image and .xls file
I'd say that your Kohler dxf toilet seems about the same smoothness as I got from TFP....see pic attached 15-2c toilet (some distortion because I used a wide angle camera in a small room)
Also see 15-2c sink which has vertex faces lit unevenly at q=3 and as I remember even at q=5 it was no better. And also note the mismatch of counter-top between center section and cabinets on both sides...with all using same settings...and that same material applied to the sink to simulate a single piece "marbelite" type sink/counter-top (cast polymer).
In comparison also see 9-0 toilet which is from FP10 and image quality (model smoothness) is better and its only a raytrace render....hence I'll try to export the model from FP10 and use in TFP12 and see if it is better......and/or export the TFP12 model and smooth or tessellate or subdivide the vertex model mesh, then re-import....when I find some time.
Kohler does have a large selection of elongated toilets..and their site has easy access to dxf and dwg models....thanks for the pointer. Other suppliers also have models but I'm not at the stage of customer specified all plumbing/hardware/tile/wood/etc. as yet and not sure I'll need to get that exact...but it should look nice.
Quote from: Doug.S on November 14, 2007, 08:06:47 AM
In comparison also see 9-0 toilet which is from FP10 and image quality (model smoothness) is better and its only a raytrace render....hence I'll try to export the model from FP10 and use in TFP12 and see if it is better
I exported the FP model as .dxf and imported it into TFP12 as dxf and replaced the TFP toilet and re-rendered...
- good news is that the imported dxf mesh is now visible in 2D view (TFP toilet went into hiding when I changed the materials, but since I deleted it and re-inserted it, and again changed the weave texture to porcelain, now shows with blue outline again....can't explain that)
- bad news is that the FP toilet did not render any differently...looks OK as basic render but vertex faceted for advanced render, even at q=5
PS I had that happen before with a vertex sphere for a convex mirror...replaced the vertex model with a native spline type model and render was perfect. Curved vertex models, even with lots of polys often renders faceted....more poly faces means a bigger model and smaller facets but still looks "checkered"
Doug I suspect there is some bug in the render program or something is missing that was in the old FP even this is a diffrent typ of program I have try whit skp-file whit the same result it look nice sketchup but get messy in tfp
Robert
I've seen something like this before when, IIRC, the facets' 'Normals' were not aligned. So, adjacent facets were drawn and textured in different sequence -- ABC vs ACB vs BAC-- high-lighting their angularity...
As a result, a fairly-high poly-count model looked significantly cruder than a similar, lower-count model...
Hmm... In a 'spline' model, does the program optimise facet shapes and sizes ?? That must help !!
IIRC, many 3D programs have a tool which can 'comb' abNormal 'tats' into order. Also, even the apparently clunky Draw3D could 'multiply' facets in selected 'boxy' areas...
One reason for wayward normals, IMHO, is that many models are intended for use with a UV-mapped, wrapped texture. The render engine never 'sees' the massing-model's facets, only the lovingly painted custom texture...
IIRC, a quick fix is to use a 'matt' texture.
Also, avoid point-sources of light ??
---
Um, this is one reason why I began using Poser(TM) beside FP. Poser_4 could handle high-poly objects, would let me re-create Medieval-ish FP scenes in close-up using essentially the same 3DS models. Unfortunately, my grand FP plan is still unfinished-- 'Classic' FP ran out of 'headroom', began disk-thrashing with two (2) Gigabytes of vacant RAM remaining !! Not Amused !! Though P_4 did not get much use for 'architecture', it was such fun that I've just upgraded to P_7...
Thanks for the potential tips
I do have a 3D program that can point the normals in one direction....may give that a try.
What do you mean exactly by a "matt" texture...plain color, no reflection or no emissive etc? or a plain color image map?
I tried "multiply" (smooth, subdivide, etc) and all it did was make many more smaller vertex surfaces...otherwise render result the same.
I have 3, point light sources....TFP only has point sources that I have found so far...no spotlights, fluorescents are really point light sources. And if you want any light other than sunlight thru window, you must insert point light sources for radiosity renders.
Quote from: Doug.S on November 16, 2007, 01:55:25 PM
I do have a 3D program that can point the normals in one direction....may give that a try.
What do you mean exactly by a "matt" texture...plain color, no reflection or no emissive etc? or a plain color image map?
See attached images...
- sink "normals" all looked OK, but I did a "unify normals", saved as .3ds, imported, rendered...normals made no difference
- also tried textured vs. plain bright white...all material render settings = 0 except for bleed = 0 and 100...very little difference
- I also rendered the exact same unified.3ds object in my other 3D program (Carrara) and it renders smooth as a baby's ___ ...see next ...limit of 4 files per post
Conclusions:
- TFP render engine needs improvement or a user choice about object smoothness
- normals are normal
- color bleed has minimal affect
- plain materials don't improve vertex face renders
- I also rendered the exact same unified.3ds object in my other 3D program (Carrara) and it renders smooth as a baby's ___ ...see next ...limit of 4 files per post
[/quote]
see attached Carrara render of same object...smooth!
Sorry, Doug, I thought it was worth a try...
IIRC, 'aligning the Normals' works if the render engine's smoothing algorithm judders for tats...
Okay, seems current TFP render won't smooth facets, while Carrara can handle that bowl every which way !! Looks like TFP needs a 'Smooth' option...
Um, I meant matt vs gloss, so that reflected light is scattered broadly rather than mirrored, masking the slight change of angle. Something about polar diagrams, and 'rates of change' of reflectivity ?? D'uh, I used to understand the theory behind this stuff...
Daug and Nik this is my best try after I have reinstall the program, and updated graphic cards to newer settings, 5/4 render Radiosity/Raytrace, but this is extrem environment.
Robert
Quote from: Doug.S on November 16, 2007, 08:02:23 PM
- I also rendered the exact same unified.3ds object in my other 3D program (Carrara) and it renders smooth as a baby's ___ ...see next ...limit of 4 files per post
see attached Carrara render of same object...smooth!
[/quote]
Doug,
I have just noticed a free copy of Carrara Pro (V5 I think) on a PC Magazine cover disk, which lead we to wonder how well it utilised TFP files. For instance, is it possible to render a DXF/3DS/BLD (or whatever) from TFP and render the whole model. Is it simple or do textures etc have to be redone or what? I do not have a lot of time to learn new programs, so if it was straight forward I may consider it. I know in the past that you have spoken favourably of the results so I would appreciate your comments, particularly on how involved it is?
Allan
Carrara readily imports TFP and FP dxf export files with grace and ease (and pro version does dwg 3ds and more). The file becomes a large numbered and named indentted list set of vertex objects with color only materials but Carrara has an extensive ability to apply materials and textures with MUCH better control than TFP....but of course it means a lot of detail work in applying materials on a per object basis.
Since you are familiar with 3D tools your learning curve should be fairly fast but the tools and where to find them will take some learning....but not as bad as a typical CAD program and there are 2 main forums with plenty of users and help from newbies to experts.
The free copy of C5pro is a super deal and version 5 is very advanced...tho ver 6 does have a few new nice features....but ver 5 will do most of your needs.
I have imported a full house model and did 30 sec. movies of sunrise thru sunset for 3 times of the year to track interior sunlight and exterior shadows as well as "bird's eye" flyarounds. I usually do most renderings still in TFP unless a certain characteristic is needed as Carrara has a wide variety of lighting capabilities and rendering outputs controls and the renderer is quite fast even for complex renders...excellent quality output.
And carrara is a full capability program for 3D terrain/landscape/vegetation and modeling and motion and is expanding into human figures with free DAZ studio or easy import of Poser stuff, including animation and hair and growing hair withing Carrara 6.1. Go to DAZ3D.com to check the long list of carrara capabilities.....extremely good for mid priced s/w....excellent value and developers listen to users and readily produce bug fixes and maintain a bug list on-line log for users. Their chief developer even watches the forums for issues and provide answers on occasion. There are several independent 3D plug-in developers and the plug-ins are usually low cost like $30 each with free upgrades to new released versions...see digital carver group .com
Get the program even if only to play with it or have it handy just in case you may need to use it. I also use carrara to generate .3ds objects for FP/TFP.
I've used Carrara from ver. 1.0 and its predecessor RayDream ver. 3 thru 5.5 so I'm very familiar with it. Carrara was bought by DAZ about a year ago and direction has changed a little but no loss in product expansion with new release/update about every 18 months. Just yesterday I did a 3D design and exported the "rendered" result as a .ai format with transparency to keep file size small (but typical render bit-mapped formats also available, including spherical pano camera). There is very little you can't do that even the pros do for movies like Pixar...including physics, particles, smoke, water-flows/motion, windblown trees, etc.
Ask any more questions if above is insufficient. Also the carrara forums are very friendly people.
Doug,
Thanks for that summary - I will get it (since free is very cheap!). It is a shame it does not carry over the textures and presumably it is not editable (as in minor remodelling with late changes) - it would be a pain to have all the textures changed and then have to do some remodelling back in TFP (is that what would happen?). Since it obviously renders so well why do you use TFP and predecessors? I assume because Carrara is not actually for house design as such but just does 3D generally(?)
Allan
Actually I don't think I've tried a TFP export to Carrara as of yet...so maybe some materials come thru in the right format but often materials do not transfer for many 3D formats because the materials structures if other than a .jpg applique never are the same because of each programs proprietary software....and export/import file structures. Maybe I'll try a simple TFP one room house export for a test check.
Carrara is fully editable....actually more so than imports from TFP....for example I can import a TFP object into Carrara (or Hexagon) and change any part of the object and/or re-name/re-assign the materials domains so materials can be applied to different parts of an object differently...and apply shaders in Carrara or export the object with new domains back to TFP as .3ds and apply materials as desired in TFP to the parts of the object as desired....I can explain further if needed.
Yes it is an issue if you export a large TFP file to Carrara, setup materials etc and render...then decide a change is needed in TFP and redo the large file.....BUT, a change in TFP could be exported as a set of objects (hide everything else) and import and replace the changed parts in Carrara and the new materials work in Carrara would only be as large as the new import changes. Locating in 3D in Carrara is easy with dimensional accuracy and location easily entered by numbers in x,y,z and rotations angle for each axis and the axes can be rotated in the working space temporarily as a subset of axes.
I render in TFP because for most everything I need it for it does it good enough and is handy/easy (when it works) and radiosity is now much better than FP11. Carrara has even more than radiosity like subsurface scattering, HDR lighting, controllable sky-lighting with clouds and fog etc. Great if you need extreme realism or if can't get a scene just right in TFP....but of course is more work too.
Carrara is a general purpose program and does not have the automatic architectural features like TFP tho there is one architectural plug-in it seems limited ...see architools at http://www.inagoni.com/news.php
For me, for architecture, TFP remains a primary tool for 3D. For 2D (drawings and printing) I use "Visio" and trace for TFP. But I use Carrara for most all other 3D....and Hexagon for unusual 3D objects construction.
see info about Carrara here:
http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/software/carrara/-/?&_m=d
http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/software/carrara/-/features?&_m=d
http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/software/carrara/-/comparison?&_m=d
and great plugins here: http://www.digitalcarversguild.com/
"Actually I don't think I've tried a TFP export to Carrara as of yet...so maybe some materials come thru in the right format but often materials do not transfer for many 3D formats because the materials structures if other than a .jpg applique never are the same because of each programs proprietary software....and export/import file structures. Maybe I'll try a simple TFP one room house export for a test check."
Finally got around to exporting a TFP12 .bld (basic simple 2 story from builder wizard) as .dxf and as .3ds to Carrara 6.1pro......not the same as FP11/10/9/8
.dxf was terrible.....many parts missing etc....I gave up pretty quickly (dxf worked very well in FPxx)
.3ds however was very easy (had to work out a scale factor; took only a minute or so.
see renders below... first one done in TFP was a 2d screen picture export (no render), second done as Carrara basic render with no adjustments after import except to aim camera and sun...rest were default simple render....and voila textures came thru (but no transparency)
My conclusion is that TFP12 to C6 is easy as long as you export .3ds from TFP. With only a little more work on setting render, add sky, add transparency to glass, it will look very good quickly. Maybe when I find time I'll tweak Carrara file to get a much better render.
Note file sizes:
.bld = 343K
.dxf = 2,013K
.3ds = 259K
.car = 69K
Carrara seems to be quite efficient file size wise
Doug,
Thanks for that - I bought the magazine today but I have not installed it yet.
Allan
did a little more work in Carrara
added transparency to windows, one small interior light bulb in second floor (otherwise too dark), added sky and infinite terrain
see two renders below...camera angle could be better as well as adding trees and mountains etc. Still simple renders, no radiosity or DHRI or other fancy stuff.
Oddly all items are described as materials, not named like walls and floor but fairly easy to garb any one item and change the materials....but since materials came included, little work to do for materials
So I'm done playing but TFP to Carrara via .3ds works well
Doug,
Well I have installed Carrara and it certainly looks very comprehensive as far as functionality goes but however do you actually start doing something?
I tried to Open and Import my simple 3DS house (4 walls and a roof) but how do I actually see it? I assume it is there, as the lower right box lists it by name but all I see is a grid pattern. I think I tried every button on every toolbar but still could not see it. I did find Render but this created a totally black AVI file.
Assuming my 3DS output from TFP was no good, I went back and imported it to TFP but it imported back to TFP exactly as I had saved it. Obviously I am missing something fundamental (actually I am missing an awfull lot when I look at all the options available!!). The Popup at the start suggested the Quick Tour but I was unable to find that either.
I tried opening the old 3DS Block and that showed up fine, so I assume it is something to do with scale. The lower right box also listed the materials (called them objects) separately (only2) but my house only had the name, no materials list. I was even able to apply a terrain to the Block - accidental but I did it and rendered it and I was quite impressed with the result - not that a two tone 3DS block somewhere out in the Arizona (presumably) desert is impressive but to me it was, given that it took me several hours!!!
I don't want this to start a long drawn-out tutorial for another product, since neither of us probably have the time and this is obvioulsy not the place, but if you can point me to how to see a house sized 3DS object I can probably then fiddle with the other functionality if/when I get time. At the moment I just can't get off first base with it!!
Allan
Carrara is comprehensive and like any 3D program you will learn bits and pieces as you go and get more comfortable using it.
As a first guide: there are "rooms" or different views for different functionality: assemble (mostly for viewing and arranging), texture room, render room, and modeling room....to keep one view from too much clutter but requires moving back and forth...that seems new to most people.
Normally I'd suggest starting with a new file either empty and add simple objects to get a feel for the windows and palettes or open a preset scene and poke/look around to get a feel of the UI.
To answer your questions (and OK to ask a few more questions here but you will get lots of fast help from the DAZ3D forum or Yahoo Carrarafan forum).
Yes...scaling is the issue/problem...and it depends on the scale of the file/new/empty scene before you import the .3ds from TFP....once you import .3ds, and have it selected...go to the properties palette (right side of screen in assemble room), "motion" tab at top (next to general tab) to get to the scale and rotation...check keep proportions "uniform" and change "overall" to a different number..probably larger...Carrara has many "un-do's" (preferences set to max. is best) ...adjust until the .3ds looks like a size that fills the 3 axis grid. Since you are probably going from metric to inches it may be different so I have no recommendation. (you can set Carrara to work in metric in file/prefs).
You might see that the animation palette at bottom also has the same list of instances....so you can adjust things over time for animations.
In the bottom part of properties palette in "instances" tab is the one .3ds item listed as you noticed....there is a triangle twisty next to the name to expand the list of all items in the 3ds object (house) as a group...click the triangle at left of name to open/close the long sub-group list. When open you can select any single item, when closed you can only select the group. Also note that the 3D view camera rotate, and how the screen rotates, depends on what, and if, anything is selected. Seems odd at first but as you use it, it becomes an advantage to moving around in 3D.
On your render question...you go to the render room and use the 3 tabs at top for setup, output, and progress. Its probably set to render animation if you visited the storyboard" room (which hardly anyone uses)....just change rendering "output" tab to render "current frame" (probably at time=0) to get a bmp or jpg file also selected in "output" tab file format.
In assemble room: see menu/view/show production frame to see an outline of what will be rendered as seen by the camera. If you select the camera icon (keyboard shortcut "x") you can drag a rectangular window anywhere (more than once) to render a part of the view quickly for a "look see" without a full view render...much faster.
Quick tour should work as well as a help file....but if it does not, look in the program files directory where you installed Carrara and look for .pdf help file....you can open that alone without Carrara open if you wish. pdf has a good search ability.
Hope this helps.....if you feel more comfortable exchanging emails outside of TFP forum you can write to me directly and I'll try to reply when I can.
Thanks Doug - seems to make some sense from memory. I haven't time to open it at the moment to try it out but I have printed your notes so I can have it in front of me when I do. I think I can get the hang of it once I can actually see what I am supposed to be rendering!!! Yes I had clicked on Storyboard which apparently is what got me into the animation side of things.
I did an animation in TFP the other and it came out beautifully - the people were thrilled to bits with concept and the movie itself and so was I. It came out better and quicker than I expected. 250MB but the quality was excellent and enabled them to decide immediately.
It will be interesting to see how Carrara compares - when/if I get that advanced.
I'll try not to bother you too much on it.
Thanks again
Allan
Carrara has much more control over animation and outputs....paths and otherwise with adjustable tweeners for full control of cameras and objects and lights and even material texture shaders...actually everything is adjustable vs. time; including a graphical UI for adjusting if desired. So for example you could make an object change textures and fade n or out vs. time. A few users generate work for TV stations and commercials as well as print and web.
Also has codecs built-in (many) to save either full or compressed files and control output quality...for output to PC or MAC or both
Another animation ability is rotoscoping.....show a movie in the scene as the program is generating an output animation. Example is showing a video stream on a 3D object in a scene such as a TV set while you render a camera walkthru motion. You can also add any audio files for sound effects.
Also for 3D still renders also check out non-realistic renders to look like a hand sketch or artistic painting as well as wireframe renders.
Sounds good but unfortunately I suspect a big learning curve. Maybe I should retire so I can enjoy myself!
Allan
I attempted to get the extra catalogs from Broderbund.com where I purchased the download. They told me everything was in the 173MB download but that can't be the case as the catalog seems to be small and other users have posted here that there are 233MB worth of additional catalog. After directing them to this forum and explaining that there were additional downloads they said I had to purchase a backup DVD at an additional cost. Is there a way I can get the full product? I did pay for it but Broderbund seems unwilling to contact IMSI about the additional downloads.
Any help is greatly appreciated. I am simply looking to get the entire product. I can provide proof of purchase if needed.
Hi Alan,
I don't know that I can help much with this one but maybe I can make it not feel so bad.
First you may have noted an earlier post from Dave Taylor (IMSI Design rep) in this thread.
Quote from: dtaylor on October 03, 2007, 11:46:11 AM
You should get the extra content from the vendor that you purchased from.
I cannot post those links here for obvious reasons:) but can assure they are available for download, just not part of the program.exe download.
That seems to imply that Broderbund should be able to provide the download version of the extra catalogs. If they won't/cannot do so then you may be able to take it up with IMSI Design direct. They do not actively monitor this forum so may not see your post. You could also try CadCourse.com who are usually very cooperative.
Having said that I would not be too worried if it all gets too difficult. I did download them, as provided by IMSI Design from whom I purchased V12 in the first place, but to be honest I only found two elements that I thought I may use (but haven't yet!). I have opened each catalog once, looked at each element, installed 2 and transferred them to my master catalog and never looked at any of the catalogs again since. I got the impression that all the good ones had been included in the standard catalog and these were the ones that missed out. The bathroom items for example were groups of items. Fine in themselves but if the bathroom items were not in the precise positions you wanted each item too bad. That is where they are and stay, so useless really for a personal design. Your needs may be different to mine of course and there MAY be things you could use and I can understand that you would want to have a look to satisfy yourself, but as I indicated before, If you can't get your hands on them, you are probably not missing much.
If you are looking for some specific items just ask in this forum, or do a google search for 3DS objects and you can usually get what you need.
Allan
Allan, thanks for the info, this does make me feel better. Broderbund claims to have no knowledge of any other download and initially said everything was included in the 173MB program exe. After a few emails they finally said I could purchase a backup DVD, very poor service. That is why I posted here, my original vendor is clueless about the other catalog downloads.
On to the net I guess...
???
In the latest version of TFP H&L Pro 14.0.C2.662 can you use multiple catalog then you render. But use the standard-catalog then you rendering. Then you raytrace will the rendering flicker but that normal the rendering switch between the catalogs. In the preview window will the all items from the other catalogs disappear that is also normal.
In the image below have I use standard catalog + on catalog with plumbing items only from Kohlers bathroom-items, I self have done to TFP H&L PRO v12 and convert to TFP H&L pro 14, this catalog is on nearly 10 Mb, to the bookshelf have I use a imported dxf-fil what i converted in Acme CADSee from a dwg 3d file from KI Office.
The frame around one of the bathtub have I make with standard Wood Retaining Wall
I think that the latest version work very well I can even do other tings when the program rendering that I couldn't with the older version, they have made good job with the update. Bravo!!
Hi Robert,
I agree with you that the latest version / update seems to work well. Some of the old rendering issues are still there of course, notably the way interior walls become black in DIRECT sunlight (not through windows or doors) and trying to get a balance between sunlight and artificial light (sunlight through windows can turn interior lights off), but rendering does seem to be quicker and not take so many PC resources.
At the same time I have a new PC so I am not quite sure what to attribute to that also. It is definitely better though.
Your 'plumbing' render has come out very nicely!.
Allan
Hi Allan!
I wonder how many diffrent catalogs you can use in on drawing and rendering it befor the program crash I think I will test it i have 2o diffrent, in range from 11kb to 41Mb.
Robert
Hi Robert,
Good question!
I rarely use other catalogues myself. Occasionally I find something useful but usually just add it into my main catalogue. I tend to make most things I do not have using existing elements and functions. You have no doubt seen the threads in the links in this post http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,805.msg3839.html#msg3839 (http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,805.msg3839.html#msg3839) but will include it in case others haven't.
It never ceases to amaze me what you can create within TFP.
Let us know how you get on with you multi catalogue test.
Allan
I have now done a multiple catalog test, this is a difficult to render because I have glass walls.
I is very happy with the out-coming of the test.
Render settings Render results Total size of catalog is 133 817 kB
Radiosity Radiosity i have use 7 different catalogs size on the drawing-zip
step 500 278/500
update 20 time 215s
Daylight unchecked
Raytrazing antialiasing 4 Raytrazing results
output 1024x768 768/768 line
time 840s
Hi Robert,
Than has come out quite well. When I first tried to open your BLD file it complained that it 'could not open the template' but it worked on the second try. I tried rendereing it myself using Quality 5 and to see if it would complete all 1500/1500 steps in the radiosity and it did. I have noticed in the past that if set to 1500 steps it does always seem to go the full number. Interesting the Radiosity phase took twice as long as yours, which is understandable since there were so many more steps, but the raytrace was only half the time. That could be PC differences maybe.
I was curious whether the extra radiosity time may have eliminated the dark patches in the ceiling, but then I noticed that it is actually the underside of the roof rather than a ceiling. I have found in the past that the roof underside often seems to render in a patchy way for some reason and I have been experimenting with this in the past to try to find a reason. I have not found any reason previously but using your model I may have found the cause! Anyway I added a ceiling to your model to test it out and the patches went, so it was not a lighting condition, although I did not put the skylights through. They should not make any difference anyway as sunlight was turned off. The ceiling rendered a lot darker overall however so I had to boost the overall lighting (+1) to achieve the render below.
In trying to match my camera view to yours however, I noticed that the dark area on the ceiling in the 'games room' reappeared when the CAMERA was ABOVE the normal ceiling or wall height. In my first render I had the camera just below wall height and it seems this is why the patches dissappeared not because of the extra radiosity quality setting. In other words, if we do a render with the camera inside what would normally be a roof cavity, the patchy effect appears (at least sometimes). I have noticed different effects previously when rendering an inside view with the camera above ceiling height - even if there is NO ceiling. See the images in this post: http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,997.0.html (http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,997.0.html).
Both images below were done on quality 3 with brightness at +1 and they completed all 500 steps in 166 sec for Radiosity and Raytrace took 526 seconds. The FIRST was done with the camera ABOVE the height of the top of the wall (note dark area in 'games' room ceiling), while the SECOND had the camera just BELOW the top of the wall (the dark shadow has gone). All the settings, except the camera height, were identical.
You will notice too that in the second image the whole ceiling is lighter and a 'warmer ' colour as the light and colour is reflected off the floor as should happen with radiosity. It appears there is an invisible 'ceiling' at the top of wall height that shields this radient light, making the ceiling darker, uneven and without the colour reflection that should be there.
The obvious inferrence in this is that if we are doing inside renders in a model with a cathedral ceiling (or no ceiling), that the camera should be positioned below the height of the walls as specified in Building Locations.
It would be interesting if you rendered yours again but move the camera slightly lower so that it is below the wall height and see if the dark patch goes and radient light appears. If you get the same result as me, then it looks like we have something for the programmers to look at for V15.
Allan
Hi Allan you have done a great work, as a test of multiply catalogs I think you can agree with me it's a success. That you culdent open the BLD the first time, maybe it was because it was different catalogs involved. It seems that the program have incloud all the diffrent catalogs very well in the BLD-file.
I will make a new rendering in this weckend and see if I got same result as you.
Robert
I have lover the camera to 2000 mm target height 2846 mm view angle 67 deg camera possion over the flugel,
level 5 1500 brightness 1,
I have make 2 renderings with Daylight on test catalog3.png and off test_catalog4.png then have I make a new image of this 2 rendering with Corel Paint Shop pro photo X2.5 (Ultimate) 2 layers there I have lighting up render with daylight on with daylight off.
Result of this is test_catalog5.png. This is a combine indoor and outdoor lighting.
Robert
Hi Robert,
That is interesting, the dark patch is still there even though you have lowered the camera below wall height - so that blows my theory out of the water...unless.... have you put a ceiling in or is that still the underside of the roof? I have noticed patchy roof undersides before.
If it is still the roof, can you try it with a ceiling and render again with the camera above and below the wall and see if the dark patch is still there on the 'above the wall' image.
Interesting that daylight turned out your interior lights also, as it does with me. I am hoping they fix that in the next version. While you can blend them together in Paint Shop and it works well, we should not have to do that. Setting the sun to overcast helps but then you do not get the beam of sunlight through windows.
Allan
Quote from: Allan Chesney on January 17, 2010, 11:46:55 AM
If it is still the roof, can you try it with a ceiling and render again with the camera above and below the wall and see if the dark patch is still there on the 'above the wall' image.
Yes Allan it is still,
Hi Robert,
To get the ceiling to follow the roof you need to look at your roof settings; angles, distance etc and set the ceiling the same.
Allan
Hi Allan, tx for guiding with the ceiling,
same settings as befor, but now iI have add some more lamps.
Radiosity 1500/1500 konverg. 0,26 tim 815,5 s Raytrace 801 sek.
/Robert
Robert,
You could try just increasing the brightness instead of adding more lights as long as it does not overexpose other parts of the image.
The dark patch appears to have gone, now that you have a ceiling. It will be interesting to see if it re-appears if you render with the camera above wall height.
Allan
Hi Thanks to George Smith, look at this topic http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,1063.msg5121.html#msg5121 I fund this great sigt whit some free BIM Objects, this is not catalog but single files.
http://www.arcat.com/bim/bim_objects.shtml
download the dxf file it works nice even you have to fix the textures
Robert
Hi Robert,
Some of these look interesting but how did you download the DXF file?
When I click on DXF, all I get is a long strring of text in the browser.
Allan
I have not read through the entire thread but my concern is how to know what you are getting from the catalog. Is there a way to see a thumbnail preview of the objects other than using Jack Z's import and view in 3d? When I import a bed or couch I have no idea what the difference is between #1 and #6. I may be hoping for a lot but FP offered that info automatically.
Thanks for this wonderful Forum.
Dick Stephenson
[email protected]
I see no one has answered your question Allen. I don't click and download a dxf file. I right click and save target. It usually works.
Hi Allan,
CAD files can be expressed in two basic formats--> DWG and DXF
DWG is the standard format and DXF is considered a primitive form of DWG--> DXF is formed by pairs of entities and settings, and for this reason, you can read it with a graphic program as well as a text editor
If, in your computer, DXF is not associated with a graphic program (as Turbocad, Autocad, etc) the DXF file will be opened with Notepad, or Wordpad, etc
You can right click on the file name and Save as or, if you prefer--> right click--> Open With--> use your favorite graphic program
Programs to open DXF files
- CAD programs--> as stated--> Turbocad, Autocad, etc
- Graphic programs--> Paint Shop Pro, Corel, etc
- A free graphic program (opens DXF and other formats)--> Irfanview--> http://www.irfanview.com/
Hope this helps
Pat
Thanks Pat,
Somehow my file association had been lost, so it was opening in the browser.
I right clicked, used 'Save Target as' and that worked.
We may have to be a little cautious with these DXF files however as the ones I have downloaded are very big, 2MB for what was upposed to be just a door knob (one I made myself in TFP was only 130KB) and 2.7MB for a gas stove. I used two of the downloaded knobs and the stove in one model and the model went to THREE TIMES its original size. NOT GOOD!!
Actually I had other problems with them too: The door knobs, although listed as door knobs, turned out to be the whole door as well and there ways no way to set the knob to a different colour to the door itself. Being imported, the door won't cut a hole in the wall either of course, so I cannot use them. Also the gas stove was all one colour too, so it is no use either. Apart from that the size issue is a real worry, but I have not looked at them all of course - some ofthe others may be usable.
Has anyone else had the problems I had with any ofthe other items?
Allan
Hi Allan,
There are a couple of interesting things regarding the imported objects and formats
As I wrote before, DXF is a primitive CAD format used mostly for exchange among different programs and it is composed by pairs of entities and settings--> these entities and settings they actually describe the drawing, layers, etc using words, as you saw --> therefore, to describe a gas range you need a lot of words ;D , hence the size of 2,697 Kb.
But, as an image (or a drawing) is worth a thousand words ;D .... if you Save As your DXF file as a DWG file (this means just a graphic format, without the "wording" of the DXF), your file will have 625 Kb (I know that you can't import a DWG object in TFP). And, better yet, if you Save As you DXF file as a 3DS file, the Gas range will have only 184 Kb
I imported several objects to TFP as DXF and then, the same objects as 3DS--> saved the files--> the difference (in the size of the file) is about 25% to 30% less importing as 3DS
Pat
Hi Allan
I only click on the the link dxf, and it automatic lunch the download, you can try to right click and download as, in the drop down menu.
I have try out some of the dxf-files but that is not all that work as it should, and is only dxf how work to TFP. dwg will work if you have some program to convert them to dxf. It was not so great site as I thought it was but some items is great, but it that look like the default color is purple on all dxf
Robert
Hi Robert and Pat,
When I click DXF I do not get the download option but right click Save Target As does download.
All the ones I have looked at are all one colour even though there appears to be two colour settings available. Maybe these work in the other formats but not DXF, which is a shame. Shame too that they are not available as 3DS, since they would be much smaller and also 3DS usually retain the assigned colours better.
Actually I could not see much there that I would use, as most are already in TFP anyway, or something so close it does not matter, especially if you have to worry about size and so have to set about converting to other formats etc to reduce it. I did get quite excited about the door knobs, since TFP does not have them yet and these were double sided, but it turned out the door was attached too, so that made them useless! Incidentally the new Envisioneer 6 also doesn't have door knobs yet, so obviously TFP V15 won't either. Maybe the programmers do not have door knobs on their own houses (only on cupboards!) but obviously the swinging ability of the doors makes it difficult, so I won't complain. I prefer them to swing with no knobs than the reverse.
Pat,
Thanks for the comments about the differences between DXF, DWG, 3DS etc. I did know the basic differences but certainly don't profess to understand it all. The door knob I made in TFP was 160KB as a DXF and 130KB in 3DS, so there was not a great deal of difference there really. Obviously on import TFP strips the wording and uses just the "drawing part" of the file, as the BLD did not grow by 2.6MB when the gas stove was imported, only by the 625K. My main concern in the earlier post was others downloading and importing these DXF objects, without understanding the file size implications and then find TFP grind to a halt and wonder why.
By the way, if anyone is interested in my simple door knob, I have attached it below. It will have to be elevated naturally and will not swing with the door - obviously!! Maybe one day we will get knobs on the doors that do swing.
Allan
Allan Have you look at Goggle warehouse I fund a some doorknobs the in skp format
Robert
Hi Robert,
Thanks for the reminder, I tend to forget abot the SKP format. Actually I only worry about using a door knob if I am doing a real close up render. You do not notice they are not there from a distance and they are too hard to move when they do not swing with the door. Maybe some day they will be part of the door or can be attached to it - that would be great.
Allan
Quote from: Allan Chesney on February 13, 2010, 01:25:08 AM
All the ones I have looked at are all one colour even though there appears to be two colour settings available. Maybe these work in the other formats but not DXF, which is a shame. Shame too that they are not available as 3DS, since they would be much smaller and also 3DS usually retain the assigned colours better.
I did not download any files from this site, but in general, .dxf will carry colors assigned to named vertex domains. TFP exports to .dxf and keeps colors OK when imported to other 3D programs.
If a problem, or to change file sizes, many 3D programs will convert from .dwg or .dxf to .3ds or to .obj easily.
Also, most 3D programs with vertex modelling allows the user to select and assign domain names and colors which are readable when imported into TFP. Even if a model is spline based it can usually be converted to a vertex model. Then you can apply any TFP color/texture to any surface you desire with complete control.
Also easy to start with a model similar to what you want and to modify or adjust that object in a modelling program....such as Hexagon, modo, blender, etc. There are many, some very expensive and some low cost or free programs.
Doug.S
Allan, ther is a great advantge whit skp-format, that is you have a free program you can edit your downloads, and the latest is rahter advanced for to be a free program. The automats in Room for the freezers http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,866.msg4156.html#msg4156 have done with Google SketsUp 7.
Robert
I certainly agree that SketchUp is a great program, especially being free.
And there is a whole world of people creating free objects for use....and easy to import those objects into TFP. Look for .skp stuff:
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/
I also use TFP as an "intermediate" program just to convert .skp files into another 3D format so my other programs can import objects that otherwise cannot import .skp directly. I have not found any free program to convert .skp to formats such as .3ds .obj or .dxf
Doug.S
Hi Robert and Doug,
I will get around to trying Sketchup one of these days. I took an early retirement recently, so hopefully I can find the time to have a look at it properly, (when I catch up on the backlog of things that have nbeen neglected the last few years!!).
One of the things I had to do at work last year, was to sit on a panel of competition judges, to choose the best set of plans for an environmentally sustainable home, in a city counsel competition. I was representing the state owned electricity company where I worked, looking at the eneryg saving aspects. There were some outstanding presentations, plans and visuals, from some of the top architectural design companies in the state. The winning entry was beautifully designed and rendered. I spoke privately with the winner afterwards to find out what software he had used for the visuals and it was the free Google Sketchup!! It was rendered in other software of course. It was outstanding and better than the rederings done by the other entries, all of who used software costing tens of thousands of dollar. The winner was a one man design 'company' and he just could not believe that he had won using free software! It is obviuously capable of great things and no doubt in the future it will include the rendering capabilities too I suppose.
I have had a look at the Warehouse previously (although I had forgotten about it) and again earlier today. I find it a liuttle confusing to use but the search seems to work OK. Obviously I did not see everything there is to see in the warehouse as it is extensive, but most of the things I did see already exist or could easily be made in TFP, with the exception maybe of SOME of the curved items like special chairs. Does SketchUp let you create multiple direction curves easily? Or were these particular models done in other software and just made available to the warehouse by the furniture manufacturers (similar to what they do with the BIM files)?
Quote from: robban on February 15, 2010, 01:26:51 PM
The automats in Room for the freezers http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,866.msg4156.html#msg4156 have done with Google SketsUp 7.
Robert, I am just curious, what is different about your 'automats' so that you used SKP, rather than what TFP already does? Maybe you could post one of them so I can have a look.
Allan
Hello Allan. I have now SketchUp7.1 and it works fine, and if you download a plug in for dwg and dfx files to the SketchUp7 you can clean up this fils and save them as skp, with TFP 14. Her is a youtube file what you can do with pro version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vqS86TGhMQ
it is impressive
her is one more http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcOrlX5wgLE that maybe answer you question.
I used SketchUp to make the automates beques it was much easier to do it, and you ad a image as a skin on a surface.
Robert
Hi Robert,
Thanks for posting those YouTube videos. The opening doors/drawers was interesting and the making curved objects plugin too. At least I know where to go if I need any multiple curved objects. There are currently a few in the Envisioneer forum complaining about the fact that cupbord doors do not open, so I guess Cadsoft will be under pressure to provide that in a future release. Looks like SketchUp is ahead of them on that one. Does the latest version have lighting to do photorealistic rendering yet?
Coming back to your Automats - they appear, from the image, to be just a square box with an image applied, so IF that is all they are, why would you not just do it in TFP? It would only take a few seconds, probably less than the time it would take to import the SKP file. Of course, if it is not just a box, then it may be a different situation, and in that case I would be interested to see the SKP file - if you still have it around.
I am always interested to see whether things done elsewhere, can be done in TFP - usually I find they can and often much easier. In the Envisioneer forum recently somone was wanting to do a curved lintel over an arched doorway and they were advised to go to SketchUp to do it, when it can be done in seconds in TFP or Env. For the most part it is only limited by ones imagination I think! Multiple direction curves are not there yet though, except in the terrain tools, but they are not as easy to deal with as the SketchUp plug in appears to be on the video. Seems like the ability is there in the terrain tools but needs to be reapplied to use it for other things.
Allan
Hi Allan, then it come to the automates yes they is a box only, yes it can be don in TFP but it much es yer in SketsUp and you have better control over the image of the automate, you can wrap a flat image around curved surface, I think you have to try it to se hove it work.
The video with the dynamic door was made in SketchUp 7 Pro and that is not free it com for arund 350
I agree that if using something in TFP and you can easily model it in TFP, then that is probably the best way to do it.
However, finding a model already done often saves time even if it has to be adjusted some.
Other 3D programs have big advantages....but for architectural work it may be of little importance...
- making non-geometrical or organic shapes is far easier in vertex modelers (compound curves and compound surfaces) or making actual surface texture instead of using a fake shadow image that is not aligned to the sun.
- making texture domains so you can change/make multiple colors/textures on one object...all under user control
- generating procedural textures in the event you don't have a specific image to apply...or you want great detail yet have a small file because you don't need a large image file (like 2048x2048 .bmp)
- tools for making complex shapes are fast and easy compared to cobbling together TFP shapes to simulate something. for example cutting a hole thru shape or making radiused/chamfered edges
- terrains and trees/shrubs can be easily generated in real 3D...tho the file size can be a problem. But I can "grow" ivy onto a 3D shape such as a wall
- 3D people (+ animals, fish etc.) are readily available to size and position (arms legs etc.) and clothe for special cases....tho "billboards" work quite well except for shadows
- Many 3D programs offer better and faster rendering than TFP with more controls over lighting ....tho TFP does OK.
Doug.S
Quote from: Allan Chesney on February 16, 2010, 11:19:49 PM
**SNIP** Looks like SketchUp is ahead of them on that one. Does the latest version have lighting to do photorealistic rendering yet?***SNIP**
Allan
SketchUp use IDX Renditioner Express Free, to rendering.
Hi Robert,
Now you remind me I did know about the IDX Renditioner from the IMSI site, although I did not know there was a free version. Since the full version is $200 I guess the free one is cut down somehow ( http://www.idx-design.com/IDX/IDXRenditioner/tabid/709/Default.aspx (http://www.idx-design.com/IDX/IDXRenditioner/tabid/709/Default.aspx) ). However it appears that it becomes indegrated, so that is good. I have a resistance for some reason, to swapping and changing between software to accomplish a single job but somehow we always seem to have to do it - even if it is just to compress an image from TFP to use on the forum!
Allan
Hi Allan,
Yes you are correct the free version is a cut down, you can only render max 640*480.
I don't think I will make a building in SketchUp, there is TFP much better to accomplish the job, but then it com to different components I think TFP have it's limits, and if you don't will buy a 3D-cad program for do the components is SketchUp a very great tool and you have also the import to TFP that is a great +.
And competition between skp and dxf I think skp will win
Hi Robert,
I have no doubt that SketchUp will go from strength to strength as Google seems very motivated.
At present I am doing up a bit of a tutorial on making objects in TFP. Great things are possible, very easily and quickly, and I think they get missed by a lot of users. Just as an example the two lounge chairs below were made in just a minute or two in TFP out of two pieces of the floor.
What I would like to see is the developers create a little object making toolbox, that utilises unique functions of the existing elements (Walls, Openings, Floor, Ceiling, Roof, Layout and Members, Surfaces, Columns and Terrain). If they were simplified and combined into one area, they would form a great toolbox, by utilising all the functions to make a single object. Sounds easy but.....
Jack, if you see this, you may like to add your modern chair examples.
Allan
Hi Allan, great looking lounge chairs. There is some tools in the catalog, but agree to you that tool to make objects stand high on the list, maybe they can ad some more tools to layouts, fore example that you can make a curved member, then you can do your own plumbing as you like.
Robert
Hi Robert,
You can actually make a 'curved member', as in the round tubes in the images below, but they are made up of straights of course, hence you still see segments. I have made them obvious by setting these round tubes to a mirror surface. They were made to simulate those round flourescent tube lights. When they are set to 'emmissive' for the light, the segments do not show.
All I did was use the Layout circle, then use the straight line tool and follow the circle around CLOCKWISE. The line will attached to the circle, so it is easy to get the round shape. When you finally join up, zoom in and select the original circle (or curve) used as a guide and delete it. You now have a 'flat edged' circle that will 'convert to members'. When you choose the profile make sure the 'Mitre if Possible' check boxes on the Details tab are ticked, so it will join the segments together. If you draw the curve in an ANTICLOCKWISE direction the mitres will NOT work and you will end up with separate broken segments.
Of course, whether this is practical to do plumbing is another question, but if you were not tot worried about the curves being ultra smooth you could probably do it without using a curve as a guide. The other option would be to make a selection of curved sections and slot them in between straights. They result in a high polygon count too of course.
Hi Allan
Great work with the curved members.
I found a new site whit BIM-objects http://www.reedconstructiondata.com/ that you can look in to this is a firm in state of Georgia USA.
You can convert them with a DWF to DWG/DWX converter, Goggle dwf converter, but of some reason x and y axle have change places so the object lying down but that is easy corrected in TFP by set X-axle to 90 deg use custom scale I have used 1:100 but I'm not sure this is correct scale. Ther is a free dwf viewer Autodesk Design Review 2010 from Autodesk that you can dowload.
Robert
One tip abut bim-files with 3D-elements like Kohlers bim-files make a seperat catalogs for each bim-file then you can look on what is in catalog for each bim-file and select your favorits and make a new catalog with the default catalog as a ground.
I have fund out if you have a bigg catalog it can crash and you cant open it again, becouse of this you must always have a safe copy of default catalogs.
Kohler have make a new 3D catalog in dxf-format it is abut 170 Mb self unpacked file.
/Robert
From TFP 14
Not sure if I'm stupid or have a valid point here, but for a new user, this post is more than a little frustrating, specially for being a sticky. All the instructions on the first page (dated 2007) and in the pdf file linked to here and on the imsi support page were completely useless for me, as Version 16 doesn't have any of the buttons or tools referred to.
Via the Help files (which are not extraordinarily easy to follow) I managed to make a copy of my master file, and will work on that to make some more conventionally sized metric bits and pieces.
You are not stupid, and there are no stupid questions.
Best advice I can give is that old info for previous versions can be helpful as long as the basic function in question has not changed...but of course the actual keystrokes, action, results, buttons, etc. may differ some and require some interpretation. So usually best to not remove old stuff, but use it with caution.
(I have one 3D program (not TFP) where the user manual has not been updated/released for 2 newer versions...bad idea, users very unhappy....but the old manual covers about 90% correctly and only new features are not explained....which will cause loss of sales.)
Hopefully, newer versions are better.
If you are having difficulty, best to ask in the forum....and refer to "old" info/prev. ver. stuff, if it applies or is causing the confusion.
Users here are usually happy to help.
Quote from: Doug.S on January 10, 2012, 12:10:47 PM
You are not stupid, and there are no stupid questions.
Best advice I can give is that old info for previous versions can be helpful as long as the basic function in question has not changed...but of course the actual keystrokes, action, results, buttons, etc. may differ some and require some interpretation. So usually best to not remove old stuff, but use it with caution.
(I have one 3D program (not TFP) where the user manual has not been updated/released for 2 newer versions...bad idea, users very unhappy....but the old manual covers about 90% correctly and only new features are not explained....which will cause loss of sales.)
Hopefully, newer versions are better.
If you are having difficulty, best to ask in the forum....and refer to "old" info/prev. ver. stuff, if it applies or is causing the confusion.
Users here are usually happy to help.
You have good point there I shall look trough my post and point out the differences between the post and newer version of TFP, mark it with version number, or if there is a big difference update with a new post and make a referent back to old post. But it will take some time before I have going trough all my posts is updated, whit version.
/Robert
Quote from: XelaMike on January 10, 2012, 11:17:51 AM
Not sure if I'm stupid or have a valid point here, but for a new user, this post is more than a little frustrating, specially for being a sticky. All the instructions on the first page (dated 2007) and in the pdf file linked to here and on the imsi support page were completely useless for me, as Version 16 doesn't have any of the buttons or tools referred to.
As Doug said, you are not stupid and I do think you have "a valid point". The post is actually somewhat out of date and probably misleading to new ones especially as a 'sticky'. The instructions in the PDF are still valid for the most part. and I was able to follow them and create a new catalogue as per the instructions but some of the names of things have changed so this made it confusing.
It may also mislead new ones into thinking they have to create a new catalogue and over the years that particular thread has created quite a number of unnecessary questions, so I think the best thing to do is make it not sticky. That way the information is still available via the search but it will not be in everyones face by being the first item on the forum. Hopefully everyone will agree.
Allan
Quote from: Allan Chesney on January 11, 2012, 11:44:41 AM
As Doug said, you are not stupid and I do think you have "a valid point". The post is actually somewhat out of date and probably misleading to new ones especially as a 'sticky'. The instructions in the PDF are still valid for the most part. and I was able to follow them and create a new catalogue as per the instructions but some of the names of things have changed so this made it confusing.
I think the best thing to do is make it not sticky. That way the information is still available via the search but it will not be in everyones face by being the first item on the forum. Hopefully everyone will agree.1
Allan
Allan
Agree