TFP Update - What's fixed and what isn't (First tests)

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Doug,

Looking at your renders and thinking about things in mine, I think what explains the differences between your images, is the camera position - inside the room or above it (hence outside).  It seems to me that it still thinks there is an enclosed space.  The two images on the left are taken below the non existant ceiling so it sees them as inside the room.  The colours on the wall/door are the reflected colour from the floor, the bottom left does not have the yellow tone as there is no sun on the floor (even though there is no roof), to bounce onto the walls .  The upper left has the sun to bounce hence the yellow tone but the upper right while it has light on the floor, is taken from above (hence outside the room) so it does not allow for this bounced colour, as in the lower right also.

The program is treating what it sees as an enclosed space (even if it is not enclosed vertically), differently to ouside the space.  However, none of that answers why I got totally black walls and you didn't! (See images)  I am going to have a go at making my own sun next! (but light leaks may be a too much of a problem).  I prefer TFP V12's drawing capabilities but it has a way to go to catch up with V11's rendering balance and especialy consistency.

As you commented once, I may try the Envisioneer forum on this ,to see if they have worked out an interior /exterior light balance, or even CadSoft. Obviously IMSI are not going to comment - yet (I am still hopeful!!).

Allan

[Doug.S]

The sad part is I know these renders are wrong and buggy as I have other 3D programs and renders are the same regardless of camera position with all other things unchanged/remaining the same.

So a camera either inside or outside a room should not make a difference in the render calculations for light/dark/color/etc., just the different camera view....as you would expect in real life. 
As well as "no ceiling or roof overhead" should allow correct sun light to enter a room and light the walls and floors and render tones, colors, and reflections correctly.   
All my other 3D programs render what you expect to see, they are extremely repeatable, they render the same regardless of which PC it is rendered on, and they render the same results if done via OpenGL used or not. 
Of course on occasion someone finds a render error/bug....and the s/w developer fixes it and releases an update patch.

Thus one can only conclude the rendering abilities of TFP 12.01 still has several serious render bugs...these cannot be ignored nor are they rare or a result of unusual models, but are the basics!

[Allan Chesney]

Doug,

I suspect the problem is arising from the 'automatic room' that TFP creates when 4 walls are joined.  I suspect that all of this is not the problem of the rendering engine so much as the way the programmers are implementing it. The program works now so that as walls join to make a room the outside automatically becomes an exterior surface - at the same times it looks like they are adding a ceiling and floor automatically, even though neither are actually there.  These nonexistent ceiling and floor, are keeping the sunlight out as far as the walls are concerned (although it still lights the floor - if the camera is outside!).

The image I have attached was created to test the point.  I have inserted a 1mm high perimeter wall around the outside - all the walls, that were brick, turned to black, except the low wall which, is on another location so not affected.

Hopefully they will get to the bottom of it some time.

Allan

[Doug.S]

Your theory sounds pretty good and may be correct.

But can you post the .bld file so I can try a render with it?  (let me know of any unusual settings)  I sometimes get a black wall render but not usually like yours.

If the s/w is correct, my renders should look exactly like yours, but I believe I get different results than you do?

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Doug,

I had not yet updated my desktop so decided to create a similar model on that, render it and then do so on the converted laptop.  The results are very different !!! and illustrate the black wall problem.  The little mini wall around the outside converts all walls, on the same Location, to Interior Walls and they become black with an Advanced render (OK in Basic).  Without this perimeter miniwall, the exterior walls are brick and render OK (like the low wall which is on a different location) but the inside is black.  Note that the inside of the low wall on the other location is also black.

The settings should transfer to your PC, as they did between mine but just in case -Quality 5, Sun on, Brightness 0, Antialias 4, Calendar is Perth Australia July 1, 9am.

Will be interested to see what results you get.

Allan

[Doug.S]

been out of town....

see attached for my results using my laptop ....I'll try desktop tomorrow....both are 12.1

[Allan Chesney]

Thanks Doug,

I am glad you got the same result - obviously a bug and not just my PC.  I suppose the second check would be for you to create the same things yourself and see if it is the same, as well as on your other PC of course.  From my results this problem has become worse in 12.1 - I did have some black wall problems in 12.0.

Allan

[Doug.S]

render from my desktop, HA off,  looks the same to me (even file size after file re-size jpg compression is same) and confirms repeatability of bug independent of PC and video card

[Allan Chesney]

Yes they appear identical, both of yours and mine too (but not my V12.0 version - it was OK).  You will notice that it is only the walls that are black, baseboards, floor etc are OK - even the tops of the walls.  I might have a play with some other surfaces, finishes etc on the walls to see it they put it right.

Allan