Another Roof Question

[Matto Design]

Hello everyone,

I've started a new project with what I thought was a pretty straight forward roof design, but as you can see below, the left and right roofs are at different heights and I can not get the right one to extend to the main roof without it creating a weird extension that shoots out to infinity.  I've looked at the size of both roofs and they appear identical.  What am I missing?

Thanks!
Matto

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Matto,

There are several things that affect the total height of the roof. 
First is the Location settings. The roof is inserted at the wall height for that Location (regardless of whether there is a wall or not). In your case this is 11'.

On the Properties there is a Support Height setting - this will default to the wall height specified in the Location.  If the Support Height is adjusted it will change the height of the roof.  Yours is still 11', so that has not been changed which is fine.

The roof Thickness will also change its height. This defaults to 6" (which yours is) so it can affect the total height slightly.

The other thing that affects it is the Slope Value.  Both sides of the left and right hand roofs are set to 10 but the right hand side is much wider between the walls on which the roof is supported so naturally the roof will be much higher.

If you are copying another plan, then obviously the Support Height on one side must be different to the other or the Slope is different. To illustrate, on Plan view, if you drag the top edge of the right hand side roof so that it lines up with the top edge one on the left hand side roof, you will see that the height of the roof is the same.  Maybe the wall supporting that edge is much lower or the roof pitch changes at some point. (see image)

The Second floor roof will 'cut' the Ground Floor roof, depending on the settings in Ground Floor Properties > Solution Type. This will explain the chopped off right hand side roof, which is accentuationed by its extra height of course.

I notice too you have problems with your Location settings too, which will also agrivate this problem and cause others later:

You have the Ground Floor/ Floor Level setting as 1' (floor thickness), meaning the top surface of the floor is one foot above the ground (Terrain) and the Ground Floor 'Wall Height setting is 11'. This makes the TOP of the Ground Floor walls actually 12' above the Terrain. Add the Second Floor floor thickness (1') makes the top surface of the Second Floor 'Floor Level', 13' above the ground (not 11' as you have). You have not allowed for the thicknesses of the two floors. This makes your second Floor roof 2' lower than it should be (if both floors are 1' thick).

If you change the Floor Level to 13' if will raise the whole level. You will then find you have a gap in the brickwork between the two floors. On the Wall Properties, enter a figure in the Drop Face setting (1'). That will drop the brick face by 1', to cover the edge of the floor.

Hope that all makes some sense.  If you need more detail just ask again.

There are a number of related issues on the model that you emailed to me but I will cover them in an email shortly.

Allan

[Matto Design]

Thanks Allan.

I've adjusted the floor & wall heights appropriately, but now I have a small gap at the ceilings.  I have no "Drop Face" or "Drop Exterior Face" option in Wall Properties.  TFP Pro V14.0.C2.662.

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Matto,

Sorry I just automatically assumed that you were using V16. I do recall now that the 'Drop Face', while it was in V12, was left out of V14 and reintroduced in V15 - for obvious reasons.

Unfortunately I do not still have V14 on my new PC so I am working blind here but first try selecting one of the walls that need the drop face, right click and choose Replace and select a different wall. I think that some had the drop face turned on - keep replacing it until you find one that has the Drop Face. When (If) you find one, then right click it in the Catalogue, select Add New or Edit and change the other wall Properties to match what you want in the model.  Now you can select one of the walls that needs the drop face again, right click and Select All Similar, Right click again and choose Replace and select your newly defined wall that has the drop face.

If you cannot find a wall with a drop face in place, then let me know the exact wall that you are using and I will see if I can configure one for you. It may be difficult getting it to you however, unless V14 had the BIM facility - I don't think it did. Have a look under File / Catalogues - is there a Import BIM and Export BIM function? 

There are other ways if not but try different walls first and let me know about the BIM file.

Allan

[Matto Design]

I'm using the 4 inch brick wall.  Unfortunately I was not able to find a replacement with the drop face.  I tried all walls in the catalogs.  I do have Import BIM and Export BIM functions, though.   

[Doug.S]

I don't remember the drop face issue in v14....but most likely it was discussed in this forum....

suggest you search this forum; maybe you will find the previous solution/work-around or the name or source of a good wall?

[Jack Zimmer]

Hi Matto,

As far as I can see the ridges will not align to the same height because one side is deeper than the other. The math doesn't work. Unless I miss understood the problem.

Convert the roof to a Surface, add a surface node and you can easily pull the ridge to nest into the upper Hip .

The technical term for that roof that went into infinity is a 'Yikes' roof. "Yikes ! What the H is that?"

Jack

ps all covered in Roof Training Vids and more. 

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Matt,

Re:

I'm using the 4 inch brick wall.  Unfortunately I was not able to find a replacement with the drop face.  I tried all walls in the catalogs.  I do have Import BIM and Export BIM functions, though.   

I have attached a BIM file with the several 4" walls that have the Drop Face turned on so hopefully you can import them and the Replace the existing ones. You may want to rename them so you know which is which. They are all set to 1' so hopefully this is OK. If your floor is thicker, then we will need to supply a deeper drop face. If it is less than a foot, it should be OK.  It will be OK on the Ground floor as the excess will go below the Terrain, but with the Second floor the overlap CAN be a problem sometimes when doing Photorealistic rendering, as the overlap can show a slightly different colour.  Give them a go and let us know if it is OK. 

If you need thicker than 4" of course you can widen them as needed. If you need other walls, use the Forum Search for BIM and you will see several others I have posted at different times for different ones needs - mainly veneer type walls, although I am not sure whether the Drop Face is turned on in all of them.

Allan

[Matto Design]

Jack, converting the roof to surfaces worked wonderfully!  I'm really looking forward to the Roof Training videos.  Thanks so much.

Allan, I appreciate you creating the .bim file!  Unfortunately I get an error when trying to import it.  Will it not render correctly if I just increase the walls with gaps by 1 inch increments until the gap is gone?

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Matt,

That is interesting - BIM is an international standard. Usually it will give this message but with an OK as well and it works. I will try another option when I get home - I am using my phone at present.

You could extend the Ground floor walls (turn off Extend to Roof) and increase their height. You may have to lower the walls also (negative Elevate) as you probably have a gap under them too - or increase the height of the Terrain.

Allan