Is it possible to build one wall on top of another?

[gogurt]

I have a low brick wall, and I want to build a wood frame wall on top of it. Whenever I try to do this, though, the two walls automatically merge into one. Is there a way to prevent that and keep the two walls separate?

Gary

[Doug.S]

Three solutions  (use one; depending on how you want to show details or create a materials/cost/construction list):

- if using only walls, put them on different "locations" (floors or layers depending on how you think of them) (you can have locations with the same values, change the names for your sanity) (or use the upper wall on a location at the height you want)

- for one of the objects use a wall, for the other use a "box/cube" object adjusted to size you want and textured as desired; positioned/elevated to align with the other...zoom-in close to position accurately.

- use one full height wall and use "wainscot" to use separate materials on upper and lower.  Can show bricks but it will be all one kind of wall construction underneath I think.

[gogurt]

Three solutions  (use one; depending on how you want to show details or create a materials/cost/construction list)

Those are all great ideas. Thanks, Doug. I was thinking about using the cube/box approach, but I want to put a door in one of the walls (I'm making a screen porch), and I don't know if you can put a door in a thin, wall-shaped box.

I like the idea of defining a new location. I could call it "porch" and build my porch there, on top of my "ground floor" concrete patio. I think I'll try that. If it works, I'll post a picture. Thanks again!

Gary

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Gary,

I have a low brick wall, and I want to build a wood frame wall on top of it.

I assume by this you mean the bottom of the wall is brick and the upper part is timber - but that all you want is for the appearance to be different. 

If you do it by putting the two walls on different locations it will work but you could have other problems later.  For instance, look at the image below of the interior done this way.  It allows the doors and windows to extend into the upper wall but not the trim around the windows and doors. You will also notice that, although the colour of the wall is exactly the same, they render slightly differently, so the division shows.  The outside, or with different textures would be OK but you would still have the trim problem.

The way to do what you want, as Doug mentioned, is to use the Trim / Custom / Wainscott.  You can set the height to whatever you want, just on the Exterior or on the Interior too.  I have used the image below before to explain how to do it but posted it again to save you looking for it. Doing it this way the wall is one wall, no extra locations, no deleting of baseboards and auto floors (if you have them turned on), no problem with trim and no problem with rendering.

If you go to Walls, select the one you want and then right click Add Element, you can set up the Wainscott on the 'new' wall, give it a name and it is always there to use any time. Once you have set it up, you can then go to your original model, Shift/select the walls  that need a wainscott, right click and select Replace and it will replace the existing walls with the new wainscott wall and it is all done.

The only reason you may want to use separate walls on different locations, is if you are wanting to get a complete accurate Materials list. If you are not doing that, then the Wainscott is the proper way to do it.

Allan

[gogurt]

Well, Doug, your suggestion worked perfectly. Thanks!

Allan, I probably wasn't clear enough what I wanted to do. I wanted to build a screen porch on top of a brick and concrete patio. Also, there's a soldier course running around the edge of the patio that projects slightly beyond the perimeter of the walls. I'm not sure that the wainscoting trim option would work in that case (though it might; I didn't try it).

By the way, it was your tip regarding the box objects that let me create the beautiful soldier course that extends along the edge of the patio, the top of the brick wall, and the tread of the brick steps. The finished result is exactly what the structure looks like in real life! Here's a picture:

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Gary,

That has turned out GREAT!! and the soldier courses make it look very real.  It would be nice to see it rendered when you eventually do that.

Funny, I had a completely different picture in my mind as to what you were doing. Here it is fairly common in older buildings to have brick on the lower part of the wall and the upper part is a timber frame covered with some sort of fibro sheet or wooden planks.  This is what I thought you were trying to do and the Wainscott works perfectly for that.

The way you have done it is the right way for what you were trying to do.

Yes I agree with you that 'boxes' are very useful for all sorts of things!!

Allan

[gogurt]

That has turned out GREAT!! and the soldier courses make it look very real.

They sure do! Thanks again for the tip that made them possible.

It would be nice to see it rendered when you eventually do that.

Here's what it looks like rendered:



Oddly, the semi-transparent fabric that made such an effective screen in the 2D drawing, shows up opaque in the render. Do you know if there's a way to fix that?

Yes I agree with you that 'boxes' are very useful for all sorts of things!!

They sure are. I not only used them to make the soldier courses, but also the vertical stringers on the screen door.

Gary

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Gary,

Looks good - except that the screen is obviously not what you intended.

A few questions to diagnose the screen rendering issue:

Was it as Basic Render or Advanced?
If Basic, try Advanced with render quality at 5, Anitalias at 4.

What element have you used for the framework and the screen itself?
Presumably the screen has a fabric texture set to semi-transparent - how transparent? (it may need to be close to 100%).

The image below was done some time ago to demonstrate how to do a similar thing as you have been doing. It uses a mesh I made for the purpose which I have included below if you want to try them out. There is a white, grey and dark grey version. The one in the image is dark grey set to 80% transparent and with the Mapping set to a scale of 45 x 45 and the angle at 45 degrees. You may need to play with these settings to get the effect you want and minimise the 'moire' effect (is that how it is spelt?). 

It has to be rendered using Advanced or it become opaque (as yours did). When rendered, the bright pink become invisible. Incidentally the side 'window' is a wall set to the same 'mesh' but it does not work.  A Box is used on the mesh wall that is showing.

Allan

[Doug.S]

TFP also has a "screen" material available with a 'finer' mesh...look here:
(win7x64p  TFP16)(default install locations)
C:\ProgramData\IMSIDesign\TURBOFloorPlan3D Home & Landscape PRO 16\Textures\screen.bmp

and you could make your own as Allan has done to make any similar "mesh" .bmp or look at lampshade or fabric textures etc. as an alternate; set to have desired transparency and color.

[gogurt]

Hi Allan,

A few questions to diagnose the screen rendering issue:

Was it as Basic Render or Advanced?
If Basic, try Advanced with render quality at 5, Anitalias at 4.

The render I posted earlier was "basic." I tried doing an advanced render, using the settings you suggested, and this is what it looked like:



As you can see, the screen turned out fine, but for some reason all of the outside surfaces of the walls came out black. That's weird. The brick textures you see are boxes, as is the vertical white post at the end of the railing. The door came out okay, as did the cross sections of the wall. Only the exterior surfaces of the walls came out black. Do you know why that's happening? Other than that, I think it looks really good. The shadows, and the reflection off the window glass in the background are terrific.

What element have you used for the framework and the screen itself?

The framework is an interior wall set to 3 1/2 inches thick. I used fixed windows to create openings spaced so as to simulate the 2x4 cross pieces and the 4x4 uprights. (I'm still tweaking it, which is why the sizes don't look quite right yet.)

Since I need a door, I think I have to use a wall. Otherwise, I guess a box would work, too.

Thanks for the screen textures!

Gary

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Gary,

The black wall problem indicates that these walls are not connected to form a 'room' on that location - they must be open-ended or there is a break somewhere. In this situation TFP sees them as interior walls and expects artificial light to illuminate them. You can make the walls continuous by using the Room Divider on the open end or force the walls to be exterior by ticking the Force Exterior boxes on the Wall Properties, Basic tab.

Allan

[gogurt]

Wow, what a difference!



I used the "force exterior" option like you suggested. That did the trick.

I'm impressed with the quality of an advanced render. It almost looks like a photograph. I do notice, though, that there's considerable distortion. The porch wall on the right looks like it's about to fall over. Is there a way to compensate for that distortion and make the vertical objects stay vertical?

Gary

[gogurt]

TFP also has a "screen" material available with a 'finer' mesh...look here:
(win7x64p  TFP16)(default install locations)
C:\ProgramData\IMSIDesign\TURBOFloorPlan3D Home & Landscape PRO 16\Textures\screen.bmp

I didn't know about that. Thanks for pointing it out.

Gary

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Gary,

The wall will stay vertical if you have the Camera Height and Target height the same. You obviously have the camera tilted down, so that gives this impression.  I usually set both to eye height (depending how tall your are ) so it looks normal.

I have just made some variations ofthe fine mesh - will post them and an image shortly.

Allan

[gogurt]

That looks much better. Thanks, Allan.

Gary