selecting objects

[George Smith]

I don't have the tip.  I am looking for someone else who hopefully has the tip/trick:

How in the world does everyone else select items?  E.g.:

1.  In plan view; how do you select an object that is under another object?  Do you go through the ridiculously laborious hassle of going to the view manager, clicking on the object types that are in the way, coming back to the object, selecting it/editing it, and then undo-ing the view manager changes?  And if they happen to be the same type of object, what then?  Go to 3d and zoom/etc just to find the object, select it that way?  There's no way that thinking people go through all this hassle to just select an object, right?  BTW, TurboCad has wonderful solution: when you click an area that may have a few objects, it gives you a drop-down list to choose which one you want.  So utterly simple.  What about in TFP?

2.  In 3d view; how do you RELIABLY select an object?  Is it only me, or is it practically impossible to select the object you want?  E.g. using the materials paintbrush tool, all I want to do is paint a few walls a different color.  So I select the brush, pick a texture, and try my best to hit just the right sweet spot at the top corner edge of the surface I want to paint, and........ NOPE, SORRY....... I just painted an exterior wall on the other side of the house, 4 walls & 50' behind the one i wanted.  So then you have to "Undo", which deselects the paintbrush, select paintbrush again, then select the proper texture again.   Again, my basic question: who has a tip for reliably selecting the item you want to select???

There must be a way, right?  This is crazy.....

Thanks

[Allan Chesney]

Hi George,

The TurboCAD dropdown list is a good idea and I know there are other suggestions before CadSoft to try to improve identifying of objects.

However, I do not find it a problem at all when the Screen Tips are turned on.  Even among a jumble of ojects moving the mouse slowly over them will easily identify the one you want and also tell you what Location it is on in brackets after the object name. See the image, where I have moved randomly over the 3D view so you can see some of them. It works the same on the Plan for the slected Location and all 3D views for any Location. Maybe this is turned off in your program - if so tick the box "Enable Screen Tips in Model Views" in Setting / Program Settings / Workspace. This is probably just as simple as the TCAD solution as you get a virtual list as you move the mouse and simple click when  the Screen Tip shows the one you want. You can then right clic if you want a "Select All Similar" if there are several objects the same in the model and you want to change all of them.

What sort of objects were you referring to being 'on top of each other'?  I can't think of ones where I regularly have this situation, unless it is ojects on a cupboard or in a bookcase etc. but the Screen Tips easily identify these.

Unfortunately the Screen Tips do not work when using the Paintbrush. However I do not usually find this a problem either, although I rarely use the Paintbrush. I am not sure why you are trying to find "just the right sweet spot at the top corner edge of the surface". Rather than the top corner edge of the surface, I just aim for the most central area of a surface (eg centre of the biggest area of blank wall).  The only thing that can be difficult, is to select just the Baseboard of the wall, but that is easy too if you use the mouse zoom. I can't explain why it would change a wall that is not in view - I have never see or heard of that happening before.

Allan

[George Smith]

Allan,

Thanks for the reply.  I do have Screen Tips turned on.  Doesn't help much.  I'll give 2 examples:
1.  See the attached screenshot #1.  It would take around 20 tries (cursor clicks) to select the translucent wall in the left foreground.  The 19 other clicks would select the exterior door or wall or floor.  No matter how many tries, I can't select the soffit (member) above the door & window.  It takes 5-10 clicks to select the sliding door.  The other clicks will select the wall behind it, the floor, the exterior wall, the basement foundation or some wall totally hidden, 20' behind the back of the closet wall.

2.  See screenshot #2.  Try to select the window or wall the arrows are pointing to.  Impossible, because the roof overhang, shown in blue (member) is above it (height-wise, in elevation).  So on plan-view it is occupying the same space, but the wall and window are "underneath" the overhang.  The only thing that will select is the overhang.  The only solution is View Manager, deselect members, go back, select it, then change it back in view manager.  What a hassle.  But even worse if they were both the same thing (eg members, or upper and lower cabinets). 

George

[Allan Chesney]

Hi George,

This is a bit hard to diagnose without the model and your computer (bit hard!) but you should be able to select any of the items without any problem in the  example view, as they are well separated. It should not be selecting things behind what you can see.  You should not be able to select objects even though you can see them through the semi transparent wall, as the wall is the nearest surface and that is all it should select - that is how it works for me and always has since I have had this program. To select things behind that wall you would have to move the camera behind or through it. 

In the normal situation you should be able to select the wall itself with just one click. Moving the mouse will show the Screen Tip and if it indicates this wall then click - that is what it should select. If you are moving the mouse as you click then all objects that it 'covers' in the move will be selected but if the mouse is stationary when clicked it should just select the foreground object that was last indicated by the screen tip. You should be able to to move the mouse and Screen Tips will continue to pop up as you do, when you see the one you want then you click - once. I can't think of any settings you could have changed to cause background (none visible) objects to be selectable in 3D view - if the mouse is stationary.

In plan view it should only select objects on the chosen Location (eg Ground Floor) unless you have overridden this in Settings. Normally the roof and ceiling will be above most other things but it is difficult to select them unless you click on the actual line that is the roof, ceiling or floor edge. You should be easily able to select the wall or window in your example image, as the blue roof line is no where near the wall/window. Incidentally to select these you do not need to select the edge lines of the wall - anywhere between them should select it. Most objects are surface selectable' except floors, ceilings and roof. They are only selectable by the line edges in plan view. In 3D and Rendered Plan view then can be surface selected.

However, because it is still possible to select the roof or ceiling by accidentally clicking on the edge line, I automatically make these unselectable when I have finished inserting them - in fact I usually turn them off altogether, so they are not in the way visually.  Occasionally I may have to turn them back on again but usually not until I am about to do some rendering.

In case you did not know, if you select something in 3D and then switch to Plan view, you can reselect the same object by doing to  Edit / Select Previous (or Alt E P).  The last object you selected will be selected again and be editable or movable in the other view.

Allan

[George Smith]

Thanks for the reply Allan

you should be able to select any of the items without any problem in the  example view, as they are well separated. It should not be selecting things behind what you can see.  You should not be able to select objects even though you can see them through the semi transparent wall, as the wall is the nearest surface and that is all it should select - that is how it works for me and always has since I have had this program.

Wow.  So for 5 years and 2 versions of TFP and 2 different PCs I've been pulling my hair out unnecessarily?  "You should not be able to select objects even though you can see them through the semi transparent wall".  Man, I couldn't agree more, but I certainly can select things behind other things- many times that's all I can select.   If the selection process is not occurring for me the way it's supposed to, can someone help figure out why not?  Is it my PC (always have used Windows XP when using TFP)- some hardware or software problem?  Does anyone else have problems or think it's a huge hassle to simply select the right object?  Now I think I shoulda started this thread in Looking for Help.

In plan view it should only select objects on the chosen Location (eg Ground Floor) unless you have overridden this in Settings

I've never had a problem with that; as far as Locations, it works perfectly.

You should be easily able to select the wall or window in your example image, as the blue roof line is no where near the wall/window

Well, in this specific example, it's not the actual "roof" that is in the way.  It's the custom overhang that I built (using Rect Solid members or Int Access boxes or something).  Let me ask this as simply as possible: if you have an object that is underneath another object, and no edges of the lower one extend past the upper object (a big upper cabinet at 10' AFF and a small lower cabinet on the floor), can you select it in 2d plan?

Thanks

[George Smith]

Well whadda ya know?

I have been suffering through this for no reason!  Allan, you got me thinking that the program shouldnt work like it has been for me.  I messed around a bit, and it was the hardware acceleration this whole time!  I have read in a bunch of posts others having render problems with HA, and crashing, etc.  I didn't think I had a HA problem because I had none of these symptoms, and no other posts (that I could find before I started the thread) said anything about selection problems. 

The only side effect is that everything has a really annoying delay when HA is off, esp in 3d.  So I traded one annoying problem for another.  Anybody have any workarounds for HA problems?

Thanks

[Allan Chesney]

Hi George,

Hardware Acceleration was going to be my next suggestion but you beat me to it.

If by turning off HA things work better (but sloooooower  ) indicates that you probably have a video card driver problem. How long is it since you updated the driver?  If it is a while, then update it and you should be able to turn HA on again - and not have your selection problem.

Since you have a 'solid' object directly above your walls, you will have to select it in 3D view, then return to Plan view if you need to be in 2D to do what you want to do. The selection will disapppear but if you go to Edit / Select Previous it will be selected again.

Allan

[George Smith]

Anybody else have this problem (selection issues with HA on)?

Allan,

If by turning off HA things work better (but sloooooower  ) indicates that you probably have a video card driver problem. How long is it since you updated the driver?  If it is a while, then update it and you should be able to turn HA on again - and not have your selection problem.

I tried that right away, it was up to date.  Have never had any other problems with it (both in TFP and with any other software).  Anybody have any other suggestions?  HA off is unbearably slow.  Unbearably.

Since you have a 'solid' object directly above your walls, you will have to select it in 3D view, then return to Plan view if you need to be in 2D to do what you want to do. The selection will disapppear but if you go to Edit / Select Previous it will be selected again.

Isn't that silly to have to do this every time?

[Allan Chesney]

Hi George,

I recall that there have been a number of reports on the forum of selection issues with HA on.

Have you tried reducing acelleration slighty on the video card's own adjustment. They can usually be scaled back in steps and some have found that one step is enough to stop the selection problem without affecting the speed. I am not a technical person so not sure where that adjustment is - presumably in the Control Panel for the Videa Card. (Used to be a right click on the desktop - Display Issues but that was on XP I think).

I must build things differently to you. I use TFP every day and the number of times I have to use 3D to select something and then back to 2D is so infrequent that I can't even remember the last time I did it. Maybe I don't put things on top of each other much! 
Have you tried having both 2D and 3D open at once, with a split screen. It may make it easier if you have things 'stacked' frequently. Better get the HA sorted out first though!!

Allan

[Doug.S]

Regardless tho...in 2D and 3D if you have a large tree (actually a billboard), it often blocks ability to click on anything near or behind/below it (obviously I'm in the landscape area "outside" a house and working on the terrain and stuff outdoors).