3D objects imported to TFP V16 using TC V19, TC V12, & XFROG Plants

[funrob29]

Suggest:  (to test render and PC setup, does not test CAD output/conversion/model build)

1. try renders tests with HA off...even if your PC is high end with great vid card, the vid card driver s/w can cause odd problems (or not)...check to see if you have latest or more recent driver. Sometimes the newest drivers start new problems...you may need to find a "sweet spot".
You can change HA on/off easily from within TFP at any time s/w is idle even with project .bld file open....For example may render better off or draw better off or off for certain tools...then "on" for rest of time or vice-versa.  (I used to do so on last/old PC)

Doug The earlier render the HA was OFF for the reasons I explained , This last posting as you can see the HA was ON.

I just attached the .bld file. 

Robert

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Robert,

Well obviously the problem is not your PC because mine rendered your file in similar fashion to yours.

To me that says it is a problem with the TC 3DS file in some way.  As you saw in my earlier post, a similar structure created in TFP, exported as 3DS and imported again, worked fine.

Allan

[funrob29]

To me that says it is a problem with the TC 3DS file in some way.  As you saw in my earlier post, a similar structure created in TFP, exported as 3DS and imported again, worked fine.

Allan

Thanks Allan
I used TC V12 for this tests but the First test with the Awning and Frame I imported 3ds file I had saved created withTC V19 Trial, and as you can see the same happened.

I just exported the 3ds and imported again and the same results 

Next I'm going to save the TC V12 objects as DXF, then import to TFP V16 and export as 3ds and import again to see if it works

Robert

[Doug.S]

I opened the test .bld file and did nothing else but render (HA on) adv+raytrace and got similar results.

But my render time was 64+23 sec. (for Q=1500)  vs. Robert's 200 +  237 (for Q=500)  (see his posted 3D dialog box image)

Allan, How fast was your render?

Suggests Roberts PC can run TFP OK, just slower (like my older XP PC); but his vid card is not up to the task....but that usually just means longer design and render times.

[funrob29]

Thanks for the Effort Doug and Allan, 

I just open the original in TC V12, Exploded twice,  made into 3D Solid gave it a 3D paint Material, Saved as 3ds, imported to TFP as separates. exported and reimported and so far I'm getting same results

Thanks

Robert

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Robert,

Lets try something else: 

Open a new blank project, insert four round solid columns, reduce their diameter to 25mm (or whatever your pillars are), turn off the terrain and export them as a 3DS. Import them alongside the originals and render. Don't forget to turn off the terrain before you export or it will export also!

Let us know what you get - 8 columns hopefully.

Allan

[funrob29]

Allan Im sure this will work.

I know I can create some objects using TFP but there's limitations, one sample is the store signs, so far part of the sign worked but theres others parts that Have to test to see if they will work in Advance render thanks God in Basic it worked. Is not productive and Time consuming to create in TC and not Know what will work and what will Not Work. 

I design Interior, Exteriors and Landscaping, having realistic plants is a must and the concern is about importing 3ds objects, in this case from TC, AutoCad, and XFROG Plants, to TFP.

Lets Hope that the interior design for the store at Serena Lakes Plaza Shopping Center- Cubaricua TAMALES & PASTELES Supper Club will work correctly with the quality of your Office Design.

This Time consuming Tests was to find out where was the problem and I'm still left unsure wether is My PC, Video Card or the Software. 

I'm over my Date line to finish the project. 

I Truly appreciate all the Help from You Allan, Doug,  Jack and those in this Forum

Thanks
Robert

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Robert,

The suggestion to export and import the columns was just to make sure the TFP or your PC was not objecting to 3DS files for some reason. TFP can do most things but as you said there are limitations - getting rounded corners being the most difficult.  OK in one direction as in cutting out the floor but to 'round' the curved edge is difficult, needing a member profile to do it.

The reason I have done everyting in TFP if I can, was to avoid the sort of issues that can arise with imported objects. I have never had a probkem with a TFP created 3DS file.

... having realistic plants is a must ....

I stopped using 3D plants many years ago, as the realism from photoboards is so much better. The only time I use a 3DS plant these days is hidden behind a photoboard ,if I need to improve the shadow. I usually take my own photo and save as a BMP with Magenta and I have never had a problem.  The image below was just a quick example to show photoboard people for Garystan in another post and no special attendion to the plants either, as I was playing with water when I did the original 'lake', but I guarentee that you would not get this realism with 3D trees or it would cost a fortune to purchase them.

The TFP Cafe image was just to demostrate signs from TFP - drawn with  walls.  I agree probably not a quick as TC (though I have never tried it). This took about 15 min all up. Doesn't even use the lighting functions - just a 3DS with the texture made Emmissive.

Both images incidentally were done with Advanced render and no visible detrimental effect on the trees etc.

Allan

[funrob29]

The reason I have done everyting in TFP if I can, was to avoid the sort of issues that can arise with imported objects. I have never had a probkem with a TFP created 3DS file.


Allan

Allan The problem is not with 3DS files created in TFP. The Problem is with 3DS files created in TC, imported to TFP. 

And I already have the 3D Plants from a PRO SOFTWARE the Plants in TFP do NOT  look  real and really I don't have the Time nor want to spend GAS driving to find Plant to take a picture then convert with magenta to have a plant that also has issues as a photoboard by loosing leaves and weird edges, and shadows out of whack in advance rendering. The  TFP Flowers look like cut up cardboard props 

I'm Disappointed 

Robert

[Jack Zimmer]

gave it a 3D paint Material 

FYI - TCAD doesn't export materials. you should just assign a color to the parts of a 3D object. Each part can be a different color.

What happens when you do an Advanced render of the attached bld?

This shows that the TCAD generated model is working well in TFPlan (so TCAD export of 3DS file is not a problem)
It shows that an Advanced rendering in TFPlan works , so it is not the problem.

That leaves computer or user as reason for error.

[Jack Zimmer]

Issue with Plants

TFPlan doesn't have good plants, never has.

My simple solution is to take those found in Realtime Landscape Pro and add them as Photo Boards to TFPlan. I use Realtime for other things and borrowing it's plants isn't a difficult exercise.

As far as shadows not looking good in Advanced rendering mode, don't use Advanced, it uses Radiosity which bounces light around. There is nothing in an exterior view to 'bounce' off, so you get odd results. If you use Basic for exteriors your tree shadows should be fine.

Google Warhouse has 3D Trees and with my 3 year old computer, I have no problems rendering them. But I do limit their placement to either the foreground or within view. Any distant view trees are better using photo boards.

Note in the attached that the Realtime scroll bar is in middle on the right and 5 rows of trees are represented.
There are about 60 more rows to top and 60 more rows to the bottom of just trees.
Also note that there are a ton of other plants , flowers , shrubs etc

AND that is just the 2D Plant image part of the program, you have a ton of other options available too, like animation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4vk3BE_QMg&feature=BFa&list=UUIdjN0ItLqjjMc5wGzyrXBQ 

Jack

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Jack and Robert,

I notice Jack, that your image of the Truss Support does not have the horizontal bars at the mid point. I rendered it and noticed they were missing, but then noticed they did not show in 3D view or on your image on the forum, so I assume they were not there in the original.

I agree with you both, that the existing plants in TFP leave a lot to be desired. OK in distance maybe but not otherwise. Apart from taking my own photos, I have actually used trees from a Google search "tree on white background" - hundreds come up and some are quite large. It is an easy exercise just to use the Colour Replace tool to change the white background to Magenta. "Tree on Transparent background" comes up with a few good sources also but many are paid for. There is also an Australian company that produces some excellent Australian trees and shrubs, already in a BIM file ready to transfer into your catalogue, but I don't suppose you have many Australian varieties in your area! They are excelent quality, in three resolutions. I used some in the 'lake' image above and they did not appear to lose leaves in Advanced render either.  Perfect of course in Basic.

Allan

[funrob29]

gave it a 3D paint Material 

FYI - TCAD doesn't export materials. you should just assign a color to the parts of a 3D object. Each part can be a different color.

What happens when you do an Advanced render of the attached bld?

This shows that the TCAD generated model is working well in TFPlan (so TCAD export of 3DS file is not a problem)
It shows that an Advanced rendering in TFPlan works , so it is not the problem.

That leaves computer or user as reason for error.

Thanks Jack

Just what I was hoping for, a file that worked  to try in my PC with my TFPlan software.

I purchased the TFPL V16 download  in April 2012 and during the installation I would get a error message 1934 registry info and when opening TFPLan it will freeze and wouldn't let me register , I would have to force shut the PC, it took 3 weeks  and two e-mail download links to finally have  the software work, I spoke with David, Chris,  they have the info, I send David Screen shot of the problem, etc.

I just downloaded your bld. file and will get back with the results.

Thanks
Robert

[Doug.S]

Another issue to watch for using "billboard" trees, regardless of the source, is the lighting and the edges.

Often the lighting on the tree photo does not match the sun direction of the TFP scene and it looks wrong. For example photo taken at high noon which makes top of plant/tree bright; but TFP sun set to afternoon/4pm and the plant/trees should be side lit...and direction from left, right, or back (backlit) does not match...subtle but hauntingly wrong!

Also doing the "cutout" one needs to be very careful to avoid background creep; especially at edges or places of transparency. Photoshop has good tools for selecting and removing backgrounds....but look at TFP trees and you may see white edged pixels that were missed in inserting magenta color.

Look carefully at Allan's people by a lake...see the various wrong lighting on billboard objects.  I'm not attacking Allan's work as he did this as a very quick example for a different purpose....but some billboards don't match the brightness or sunlight/shadow on them (not the shadow on the ground concern) and they look like photos glued onto the scene.

With carefull selection of photo image billboards they can be convincing...just need to match all the variables to the scene using excellent transparency.

Another alternative:  Use a real 3D plant/tree (such as .3ds) in a scene all alone with the same sun/light source you plan to use in final TFP render. Render the tree/plant all alone on a plain black (or better yet, magenta) background and save as .bmp.  "Cutout" as needed.  Then use that image as a billboard. You get full control but avoid a scene with many large 3D .3ds objects....the best of both worlds.

[Jack Zimmer]

Hi Robert,

I hope it works for you, then you know it is computer or user error.... but then again, if you have a corrupt install of TFPlan, that would be an easy fix, just redownload and reinstall :-)

Hi Allan,

I didn't want to post the bld as I made that TCAD 3DS file using a copy of the lower Z frame work to the upper. You will see the upper Z framing extends above the corner posts and is 'open' on top. So the lower portion that was copied also has the horizontal member missing.

FYI.. to make this in TCAD you first draw a circle of X diameter (4"), then select the Extrude tool, click on the circle and 'extrude' it to a length (10').
Make copies and place them in to create the other 3 corners of the 'Truss Support'
In Front View, switch your workplane so it is active and you are drawing in Front View. Select the polyline tool and start drawing your 'Z' frame pattern. Horizontal 90 deg between 2 'supports' to the right, then uppward 45 deg to the left, then horizontal 90 deg to the right ,,,,,,, continue until your to the top (I stopped about mid way , as this was a test of TFPlan rendering not TCAD modeling)
Now you draw a circle to represent the diameter of the 'Z Frame 'bars' (2") and use the Sweep or Rail Sweep tool, click on the 'Circle' then the Z shaped polyline, the line is converted to a solid of a 2" diameter.

These operations are simple, fast and editable. That is where a program like TCAD is much more flexible than TFPlan or Sketchup for creating a 3D model... but everyone has their own likes and dislikes,,, so what ever get's the job done.

Jack