Placing the Wall Break tool

[TGYoung]

A couple of months ago when I was first messing around with TurboFloorPlan one of the most frustrating tools was the Wall Break tool.  Except for a few snap points, e.g., Segment Center, there just didn't seem to be any way of placing the break with any precision.  I tried some obvious ways to get precision in the placement, like inserting Zero Offset Dimensions along the wall or using Detail > Circle/Oval to draw circles of specific diameters from the endpoint of walls, and attempted to use that information to get accurate placement, generally without success.  I found that the Wall Break cross hair (+) which I take to be the "aim point" of the tool would tend to disappear near the dimension arrowhead or the circle circumference. 

Working through the the TFP Training & Tutorial manual I'm again stymied, trying to mimic the example on page 60.  (I'll admit, part of the frustration comes from the fact that while the example says WHAT to to it really doesn't tell you HOW to do it.) 

First, I drew a wall 400" long, ("A" on page 60), then copied it the wall down a bit on the workspace to illustrate somewhat my steps.  I figured out how to insert 2 Wall Breaks to create the 76" middle segment by dragging the Wall Break tool in from each end 162".  I then dragged in again from the ends of the walls to create the 122"/40" wall breaks, but noticed an anomaly.   I found I had to drag the Wall Break tool in from the ends to the 122"/42" point in order to get a wall break at the 122"/40" point.  (SEE picture B for a screen shot just before I released the Wall Break tool from the right end of the wall and see picture C for the results of doing this at both ends of the wall.)

Finally, I selected the middle segment and moved it in the "Y" direction 40".  Picture D is the result.

Although the wall breaks seem to be clearly showing at all the right points certainly the results are very different than the example on page 60 of the manual.

Some questions:

1) How come when I attempt the wall breaks at the 40"/122" points in the wall the Wall Break tool seems to be measuring 2" towards the center of the wall?
2) How come the wall breaks seem to be properly placed but the "move" of the center segment seems to shift the wall breaks?
3) Or, if that's the case, what am I doing wrong?

[Patricia G.]

Hi there,

Sorry, but I am not sure if I am understanding your post: I think that some items are mixed

1 - TFP Training & Tutorials is not a manual, is an eBook (the approach is different and this is an important point)
2 - You are correct, the page 60 doesn't show the wall break tool because the title of the subject is "Angled / Bay / Chamfered Walls". The subject (by the way, it is step by step) uses the wall break tool and if you click on the "Wall Break tool" link (in blue and underlined) you will be directed to Page 40, where you will find the Wall Break tool. Also, in the Q & A section, you will find several examples (you can use the search tool with the keyword "break")
3 - As is explained, you just apply the wall break where you need to divide the wall in 2 or more wall segments.
4 - The page 60 includes a link (in blue and underlined) to the Edit => Move Q & A section (page 192), answering the question "is it possible to move an object to an exact point?". In addition, for wall breaks you can use the arrows in your keyboard.
5 - The zero offset dimensions or any other type of dimensions are not related with this subject.
6 - I'd suggest to check the snaps settings (pg 153) in order to visualize the different snap options.

Hope this helps

Patricia

[TGYoung]

Hi Patricia:

I have been reading the e-book from front to back so I did read the Wall Break discussion - complete with jumps to hyperlinks - and similarly with the "move" function.  I had no problem with the move function - as far as I know - but the problem I'm having is with placing the Wall Break with precision. 

I described my original attempts to accurately place the wall breaks with my first go around with TFP.  By thrashing around enough this time I finally discovered you could "drag" the Wall Break tool from the end of a wall and get automatic dimensioning, something neither the ebook nor the TFP manual discusses or describes.  (Before finally figuring this out I was always incredulous when a mis-click with the Wall Break tool would bring up the "click and drag on a wall section to break a wall" error.   I'd say to myself "how the heck do you break a wall by dragging on it?"  The language used to describe to tool's use was along the lines of "insert" wall break or "click" to break the wall, implying that you needed to place the cursor EXACTLY where you wanted the break, then clicked the mouse button.)

In any case, having found the "drag" aspect of using the tool I thought that I had found the way to precisely place wall breaks.  I created the central segment by dragging in from each end of the wall 162" and placing the breaks, leaving a middle segment of 76"  I then tried to create the 40" segments by working off the ends of the 76" segment, was unable to.  There didn't seem to be any "snap" to the ends of the segment.

(If there is, I'd sure appreciate knowing how to do that.) 

So, instead, I created the two 122" segments, dragging off the ends of the walls.  It was while doing that I noticed that the automatic dimensions for the "inboard", (i.e., 40" segments), were being measured 2" "inside", (i.e., towards the middle of the 400" line), of the 40" segments' actual end points.  You can see that on the second wall in picture A.

(Do you know why that is and if it's relevant to my final question?)

By all accounts it certainly looked like I placed the wall breaks correctly according to your page 60 picture.  The second line of picture C seems to confirm that.  However, when I did my 40" move of the central segment "down" (-Y) the resulting wall didn't look like the final picture on page 60.  It looks like the wall breaks have moved - the 122" segments are now 122 13/16" and the central segment is now 74 5/16" - so every wall segment is different.  While your example kept the wall breaks of the 122" segments and 76" segment immobile it looks like my example - maybe my version of TFP, moved every wall segment to accommodate the move.

(Is there any way to change this behavior, or have I done something wrong?)

Tom

[Patricia G.]

Hi there,

A suggestion: I am always glad to help the programs' users, however, in order to help, I need to understand the problem. Be specific: describe just what you want to do and what you did.
To be honest, I am not sure if your post includes questions or if it is just a complaint regarding the program, the manual, the eBook or all of them. 

I am glad to know that you read the entire eBook, however, the main idea is that you practice the settings in order to become familiar with the program.

Both the manual and the eBook describe how to set wall breaks and work with precision because both of them explain how to dimension a wall. As explained, you can use the arrows, the move function or, if you prefer you can use the resize segment tool (Arrow with the # sign)

If you have is any specific question, I will be glad to answer it.

Patricia

[TGYoung]

Patricia:

Yes, there was a bit of a complaint about the ebook and the manual, and the program.  Specifically to the written material, the complaint is the lack of description or disclosure about the ability to "drag" the Wall Break tool from the end of a wall in order to get automatic dimensions to assist you in precisely placing a wall break.  I actually have worked with the program for many, many hours and, maybe because of the wording used - "insert a wall break", "click a wall where you want to position a break", etc. - without mention of the auto dimension aspect, I was pretty well convinced that you needed to use some other mechanism for "precision" placement.  And I couldn't do it.

Specifically to the program, the error message "click and drag on a wall section to break a wall" if you mis-click is not at all helpful.  With my mindset it made no sense to "drag" on a wall section to break a wall.  You put the cursor in the correct spot, you click the mouse, and the wall is broken.  You can see why I'm saying to myself "what's with this 'drag' nonsense?"  Too, if you put the Wall Break tool on a wall and press and hold the left mouse button, you get a green line where, (presumably) the break is going to occur.  You can drag it back and forth all you want but there's no "auto dimension" information showing, so "drag" just didn't seem to do much.  You just don't need to drag the Wall Break to to break a wall.  But, you do need to drag the Wall Break tool from the end of the line to get auto dimensioning.   (Now that I know that pressing and holding the left mouse button brings up the "cut line" I think that the methods I was trying earlier for precision placement might work after all.  I was focusing on the Wall Break cursor itself - which doesn't seem to give you consistent information about where the break will occur - and really not noticing the the green cut line because, after all, I was "clicking" as the manual instructs.

Specific questions:

1) It appears that the "auto dimension" aspect of the Wall Break tool only works if you drag from the end of a wall.  Is that correct?

2) If I break a wall I'd think that "endpoint" snaps would be available but that doesn't seem to be the case.  Is that correct?

3) Do you know why, when I created the 122" wall segments, the auto dimension tool indicated the segment next to it, the one that mathematically has to be 40", was being measured as 42", with the arrowhead of the dimension clearly not lining up with the segment's endpoint?

4) Without actually posting a movie of my actions I don't think I could be any clearer, any more specific, about how I attempted to duplicate your process on page 60.   One of your stated goals with the e-book is to convey how the program "thinks" and the examples in the e-book presumably are the method to convey this.  In your bay window exercise on page 60 it seems clear how the program "thought" about the "move" of the middle segment downward 40 inches.  It left the wall segments and wall breaks that remained in their original orientation, (horizontal), alone and stretched the two walls that changed their orientation to accommodate the move.  Assuming I have done the bay wall exercise correctly, I can't figure out how the program "thought."  Can you?  Or, can you see what I might have done wrong?


(Purely as an aside and something you don't need to respond to, your mention of the Resize Segment tool inspired me to select the Resize Segment tool and click on all the segments of the 400" wall before doing the move - the second line down in picture C to my original post.  The Resize Segment tool called out "before change" wall lengths of all segments that were different than the segment lengths called out by the auto dimension feature.  The 122" segments were called out as 124", the 40" segments were called out at 44" and the 76" segment was reported as 80".  I expect that the dumbing down of the program to "consumer" strength introduced a bug.)

Thanks

[Patricia G.]

Hi there,

Please, read my two answers above => I answered all these questions. In addition, I pointed the solutions' pages in the eBook.
I believe that you are not following all the steps and tutorials.

Patricia

[TGYoung]

Hi there,

Please, read my two answers above => I answered all these questions.
Patricia

Patricia:

I understand you are a volunteer here and don't have to answer any questions at all and only to the extent you wish to.    I appreciate that fact I have no right to expect that any question or questions I do ask actually get answered.   But with all due respect, I don't think you did answer all my specific questions.

Thanks.

Tom

[Patricia G.]

Hi Tom,

Then, let's agree that we disagree! 

Patricia