New Version???

[Voodooman]

Hi

I just had an eMail from IMSI offerring me a very good deal on TFP, this usually happens before a new release.

I no longer use Envisioneer/TFP for modelling as I need 2D plans which they are not good at.

However I am interested in rendering and am trialling Landscape and deck with my 3DS house models.

Peter

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Peter,

I do not know anything about a new version but there is an update to the existing one recently announced - maybe this promptred the email.  It has addressed some of the rendering issues that existed with the original release of TFP but some remain. (see http://forum.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,522.0.html for details).  If you are only interested in outside renders (since you are using Landscape and Deck) you should be OK, as these external renderings seems to be best using Basic render anyway.  It is the Advanced rendering that has issues, especially getting a balance between exterior and interior lighting.  Advanced (Radiosity) uses light bounced off walls etc so is not generally needed for exterior renders.  Basic renders very quickly too.

In Basic rendering there were some issues with plants producing a black rectangle around them but I have not had this happen since the update.  (See example image)

Allan

[Voodooman]

Hi Allan

TFP was pretty much unable to deal with my 3DS house, the performance was awful.

I opened some Envisioneer 3 projects that I completed some time ago only to realise why I stopped using it.  TFP exhibited the same behaviour relating to brick textures and slate which look truely awful on screen. Also some of the perspectives were obviously wrong.

When I tried to render it, TFP was still running 4 hours later.

My present software will render on screen in a couple of minutes and render a high res image to file in a couple of hours.

That said, I do not have a radiosity solution, just raytracing.

Here is a recent project.  I saved this as a 3DS object and was able to import it into TFP but could not render it.

Regards

Peter

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Peter,

I do not understand the long render times you are experiencing. The largest I have tried is 1024 x 768 but this only took 15 minutes at highest quality radiosity - raytrace was only a few minutes. You must have a very big model.

Would you like to post your 3DS file so I can try to render it?

Allan

[Doug.S]

Peter  (aka Voodooman),

What s/w are you now using?  Since great renders are important to me (as well as quick ones), I need and use radiosity tho.

Have you ever tried Carrara Studio  (daz3d.com)?   was a free (slightly older) version in 3D World magazine a while back....and a free trial available.....but radiosity renders, especially high quality with many lights, can take a long time....animations can be very long too.

Also, free Google Sketchup imports directly into TFP and there are many free SU models on the web....as well as SU is pretty easy to use and can do simple renders (use styles).

[Allan Chesney]

Peter,

I meant to ask this in the earlier post - you said...

Here is a recent project.  I saved this as a 3DS object and was able to import it into TFP but could not render it.

What happened with your 3DS version when you tried to render it?  Did it crash or what?

Allan

[Voodooman]

Hi

Sorry for not replying earlier, I have been busy with work.

The 3DS is too big to post at 5.98mb.  I appreciate that this is largish but I have no other objects at all.

I will post a link to the 3DS tomorrow.

I am using Arcon for the model but feel that the renders are not very realistic as there is no radiosity to soften the edges.

I have tested Artlantis which is very good but is almost US$1000 and I dont think I will get the value from it. 

I am happy with the textures so I only need the rendering part of the software, not the textures and objects.

I may however end up a reluctant purchaser in the next few weeks.

TFP is a great tool and superb value, if I was starting out today it would be my first choice.

I never thought I would have 1000s of hours and $1000s invested in this when I started out with FP9!


Regards


Peter

[Voodooman]

Hi Allan

Heres is the 3DS I was trying  to render.

www.software4biz.co.uk/Escargot/Polcrebo.3ds

I'm sorry for taking so long to post.  I am currently project managing a ladscape gardening project and the labourer didnt show so I have been deputising.  Its a long time since I spent a couple of days 'on the shovel'. I have been mixing cement and getting concrete flags to site - I forgot what hard work it is, I ache everwhere!

Regards


Peter

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Peter,

Well I had no problem importing your 6MB 3DS file and had no problem either moving around it.  All the walk through, fly around, dynamic zooms etc, worked beautifully and smoothly.  The main problem was that all the texture/colours were shades of grey.  I tried randomly assigning some colours but there was no way to know which colour was which and with hundreds in the model I gave up trying on that. 

Raytrace render completed in about 30 seconds but with everything shades of grey it was not much to look at.  It also appears that all the surfaces are shiny so are reflecting everything which makes for a confusing image.  The angular design of the trees seem to be throwing reflections of the sun all over the place adding to the confusion. 
Radiosity renders a bit longer 15 min for 640x480 and does not look too bad even in grey (see images) but when the raytrace begins and adds all the reflections they ruin it!

Having wandered all round the building it seems to me it would be quite easy to do in TFP and should come out quite realistic and the trees and landscaping will probably come out better.  Interestingly the people did not appear in the radiosity renders - they only showed up in the raytrace step.

I tried to render it in Carrara but it would not open the 3DS file, kept saying it could not find it, try again, even though it was selected!  it would have the same colour/ texture problem also I suspect. Can your original software export as DXF? I think that does better transferring the textures.

Allan

[Doug.S]

I downloaded the .3ds file and got same results as Allan in TFP 12 and agree TFP could do that design fairly easily....i.e. I did not see any unusually difficult areas for TFP.  And you could align/match the sun room windows with the supporting wall at the curved corner much better too.

Knowing I could select each item in a .3ds file (without un-grouping) using Carrara Studio program, I imported the .3ds file there.  It imported just fine but asked for every .bmp texture file for each separate item....of course none were provided so I simply told Carrara they were not available.  Apparently a couple textures came from within  (i.e. red roofs) but it appears some transparencies did not.....but are easily fixed in Carrara....or simply there are no lights "on" inside the house.

I selected and changed the terrain to green, set a camera position and rendered....see attached.

With either the texture map .bmp or .jpg files or knowledge of the design, I could make a much better render....including sun and realistic sky and use radiosity.

I'd say I spent about 5 minutes to import and get the render.  Render time was about 10 seconds.

It is good to have ability to exchange objects across programs to get a desired result

[Doug.S]

Just for grins I also did a close-up, added some colors and texture

Render was almost 3 minutes but 95% of time was rendering the hedge greenery details

Since the .3ds import objects can be selected individually and converted to vertex objects if needed, virtually any domains can be set and materials applied to any portions of the models.

[Voodooman]

Hi

I have downloaded the trial of Carrara and it looks pretty interesting.

As you say, TFP could create the model.  However Arcon has many of the features that I have seen you ask for.

i.e. better camera manipulation, super fast 3D manipulation - including dual monitor support (the 2D on one monitor and 3D on the other - see the changes as you build), copy and paste between floors (windows, doors etc), import buildings (unlimited buildings - build a housing estate) etc.

The sun room was built using the built in designer in just a few minutes.  The wall below has since been changed and is in the form you see because there is presently a curved stone wall in this location which will be demolished to be replaced by the conservatory.  I demolished the wall (with the good old DEL key) and put the sun room on the existing base for illustrative purposes for my client.

Arcon also easily creates the  2D working drawings (see attached) which are my ultimate objective.

Arcon has two other features that you would love, guide lines and snaps. You can position walls to a millimetre and snap walls, doors, windows etc between floors.  You can also copy a complete building allowing you to have multiple versions of your design on screen at the same time.

Thanks for your input.  I have decide that I am possibly unable to render due to lack of machine power.  My first action will be to build a new dual core PC and retry TFP on it.

Thanks

Peter

[Doug.S]

Thanks for the info.

I did go out to website and look at Arcon....tried to compare (their list) between low cost and pro version....and it seems like the low cost version does not output an image like a .jpg??   And not sure if the support is much good for the English language?   Regardless, I have enough design tools for now.

Yes, TFP could use a few bug fixes and some better GUI.   However it does work just fine on a dual monitor setup....which is what I use when not using it on my laptop.  I have a P4 3.2 GHz with 2GB RAM and render times are fine.  Laptop is a 2.4 P4 with 765 MB RAM and it renders just fine too......so you don't need a wonking fast new PC to run TFP....but you do need some good video card for OpenGL and unfortunately TFP does not specify which cards and versions are good or needed....so its a real crap shoot to know whether a vid card will work well with H/W acceleration or not until you try your specific system.

If you need any quick help with Carrara, just ask....I have been using it since before it was named Carrara (was Raydream maybe 10 years ago) and the two main forums for Carrara have excellent users willing to help (like here)....but there are more people using Carrara because its  general purpose, works well with Poser and DAZ Studio and Bryce and there are many good low cost plugins too.  And they listen to users for new features and have an on-line bug reporting system with feedback to the bug reporter and status of it being fixed.

[Voodooman]

Hi Doug

Interestingly, my PC is quite modern 2.8ghz AMD 2800XP (2 years old) and I was unable to run Artlantis 2 on it because an instruction set is not present within the processor.  I cant remember the name of it, but basically Artlantis uses it for rendering, apparently all dual core processors have it and some single core, so perhaps thats my problem.

I have decided anyway that I should upgrade asap.  I do have a dual core laptop and will give that a try, I have not doen so due to pressure of work.

Thanks

Peter

[Voodooman]

Hi

Thanks to your comments I have been thinking more diagonally and realise that what I may need more than rendering is a good Paint program.

I am trialling Paint Shop Pro and some of the things I want to do are easily doable with a couple of mouse clicks.

I am also in the process of building a new PC with a Phenom triple core, 512mb dedicated graphics, 2gb memory and ATA300 serial drive, specially for imaging/rendering. The bits should have arrived yesterday for the weekend but are a no show.

I am not artistic and will never achieve the results that you guys achieve.

Thanks for your help

Peter