3D Image View Switching Between Rendered and Something Like Wireframe

[luke890]

Hi Dave, Pat and Allan

First of all, thanks for your quick replies! Unfortunately, I'm still at a loss - I've tried updating drivers, changing colour settings, installing latest DirectX updates etc... but the problem still persists.

If it helps here's a bit of information about my system: I'm running Windows 7, video card is an ATI Radeon HD 4350, I have DirectX 11, Direct3D 8, OpenGL 6 and I'm currently using TurboFLOORPLAN Home & Landscape Pro v.12.

I've visited IMSI Design's website and noticed v.14 is suited for Windows 7 so I'm wondering whether the problem is with me trying to run v.12. Allan, will that update (thanks for directing me to it by the way) be able to upgrade my current version to v.14 or will I have to buy it separately? I'm more than happy to buy v.14 so long as I know I won't have the same problem as I'm currently having.

Thanks again everyone, any additional solutions are much appreciated!

Luke

[Draft Patrick]

Hi Luke,

I checked the Getting Started Guide for V12, and definitely Windows 7 is not listed in the System requirements (of course, W7 was released after the release of TFP V12 ). But I don't know if this can be an issue
But, just in case, try to run TFP V12 in compatibility mode
To do this--> Go to your desktop--> right click on the icon of the program--> properties--> compatibility--> I'd suggest that you set the compatibity with Win XP, as some video cards crash under Vista, so this is a "just in case" option

Also, a very important note--> the ATI Radeon HD 4350 video card is not compatible with Windows 7 and there are not drivers for this card under W7
http://www.diamondmm.com/4350PE512.php

Let us know about the results

Pat / Draftcad

[kanewolf]

There definitely are windows 7 drivers for a 4350 card http://game.amd.com/us-en/drivers_catalyst.aspx.  I am using a 4350 card with XP and the 9.10 drivers without any wireframe problems.  I am also using V14 so it could be a V12 thing or it could be a Win 7 thing.

[Draft Patrick]

Hi kanewolf

I don't think these drivers will work, because the 4350 is an ATI Diamond, and the drivers must be downloaded from http://www.diamondmm.com/4350PE512.php
I had 3 different ATI Radeon videocards. The first was an Ati Radeon by ATI, and I used the drivers from the ATI web site. The second was an ATI Radeon by Diamond (the worst of the 3 cards) and it worked just with the Diamond drivers. Currently I have an Ati Radeon by HIS and it works only with the HIS drivers. Just to be sure, I contacted the ATI support and they recommend the use of the drivers developed by the manufacturer of the card, because in the case of the Diamond, His, etc, they only provide the chip

Hope this helps

Pat / Draftcad

[kanewolf]

The reference drivers have never given me any problems, regardless of the brand of card.  I actually don't even know what brand of card I have....  Looking back at Newegg e-mail, it is an MSI brand, I also have a Gigabyte brand 4550 with reference drivers only.  Usually waiting for the original vendor to release drivers is slooooow.  So, NVIDIA here we come? 

[Draft Patrick]

Hi kanewolf,

AMD is the manufacturer of the ATI products. They have (among other products) video cards, microprocessors and chips. If the video card is manufactured by ATI, then you have to use an ATI driver, but if you have a videocard manufactured by Diamond with an ATI chip (as the 4350 is) then you have to use the Diamond driver. Just as additional info, the 4350 is also manufactured by other companies as Tul, MSI, Visiontek, GeCube, etc

I work with graphics since 2001 and in my experience, Nividia is excellent for games and ATI is excellent for rendering. Of course, I repeat this is just my experience

Pat / Draftcad

[luke890]

Hi everyone

Thanks once again for your responses! Pat, I've tried running it in compatibility mode but to no avail. Also, I take on board what you've said about the my card not being compatible with W7, however this confuses me as I bought the computer new from Dell (it's an Inspiron 545), so I'd be quite annoyed if they sold me a computer which doesn't work with itself! If this can be fixed by a driver update then fair enough, but as you've pointed out there are none available from Diamond. However, I have found driver updates from ATI's website (as kanewolf also pointed out), which I've tried but haven't worked.

Maybe it is an issue with v.12 and W7. I'm currently in the process of downloading the v.14 trial so I'll let you know if I have any luck! If it doesn't work then at least we know it's the card that's problematic.

Thanks again everyone

Luke

 

[Allan Chesney]

Allan, will that update (thanks for directing me to it by the way) be able to upgrade my current version to v.14 or will I have to buy it separately? I'm more than happy to buy v.14 so long as I know I won't have the same problem as I'm currently having.

Hi Luke,

This was written just before your post but I will submit anyway as it may be still relevent even though you are using the Trail V14. That was a good move to prove the other issues you are having.  What I started to say was:

Re your earlier upgrade question.  The update /patches linked at the bottom of the forum only upgrade the relevent version - eg V14 will go from build 624 or 637 (depending which the user has) to 662.  It will not upgrade V12 to V14 - that will have to be purchased but bear in mind that you should be able to get it for a special upgrade price which is very generous.

As to whether the change to the V14 is worth it, in my opinion it is. In that regard you may like to read this post http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,800.0.html. Whether there and any issues with Windows 7 or not I can't personally say, as I do not have it yet. It is on my adgenda, as I got a free upgrade with a new laptop, but it is just a matter of getting around to do it and the hesitation caused by having to set things up again like I want them to work.  Takes so long it puts me off.

I have seen only one negative comment so far about Windows 7 (http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,906.0.html) but I presume there are many who have no problems or I am sure there would have been more enquiries. Running in XP compatibility mode would presumably solve these issues anyway. If the issues you have had relate to the video card, then that is a separate issue. Incidentally we have asked in the past for a Hardware Acceleration toggle switch on the Status bar so you can just switch it on and off as with Collision etc.).  Hopefully that will appear in V15 !

Allan

[Draft Patrick]

If this can be fixed by a driver update then fair enough, but as you've pointed out there are none available from Diamond. However, I have found driver updates from ATI's website (as kanewolf also pointed out), which I've tried but haven't worked.

Hi Luke,

That is correct. As I pointed in my answer to kanewolf, the driver for a videocard developed by Company XX doesn't work with the card developed by Company YY. The only thing they have in common is the ATI chipset, but the driver comands all the card, not only the chip.
Independently of the TFP problem, I'd suggest that you contact Diamond regarding the driver issue, because this will affect other features as videos, for example

[luke890]

Hello again all

I've just installed the v.14 trial - the good news: I no longer have the wireframe problem! Sucess! I think I will still contact Diamond anyway and ask about any updates for W7, as, like you said Pat, it could still affect other features in the future. But hopefully I won't have to hassle you good people for those solutions as TFP is running okay now!

However, there's a bit of bad news: basic rendering is causing TFP to crash everytime. Advanced rendering seems to be working fine though. I wonder if this is a bug with the program? I seem to remember a while back when I was first getting to grips with TFP and visiting this forum for tips (thanks Allan - I learnt A LOT from you!) that people had some rendering problems. I can't remember specifically as I never had such problems but I'm sure I've heard of a 'render bug' before. Could just be my machine again though I suppose!

Thanks again

Luke

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Luke,

I am really pleased to hear that V14 has solved your earlier issues - that's great.

Early reports of crashes during rendering were with Advanced render not Basic and were fixed with a patch soon after.  I do not recall any previous reports of crashes with Basic render.

Issues could be the machine as you say, it could be something with Windows 7 as that is still new of course or it could be just an issue in the particular model, such as a corrupt wall.  Normally one would expect such a problem to cause the crash in Advanced also but...  Have you tried a new project with just 4 walls and a roof (just to eliminate any model issues)?

Allan

[luke890]

Hmmm, now that's interesting. I've just done as you've suggested and rather than crashing, it seems to have... well I'll just attach a screenshot so you can see for yourself! Advanced rendering still works fine, it just seems that basic is the problem!

[Draft Patrick]

Hi Luke,

first of all, glad to know that your solve the main problem.... so now, lets try to solve the next one  

Some suggestions
- V14 has patches--> http://forums.turbofloorplan.com/index.php/topic,963.0.html --> try to download / install these updates and see if they solve the issue (probably, you just need is the 624 -662)
- To narrow the issue / solution--> try to move down the acceleration just one notch (or two) and see if it helps
- I know that this will sound odd but this happened in the computer of one of my Customers, crashing all the time   --> download and run a good malware cleaner sw like Spybot or Malwarebyte's (both are free)

let us know about the results

[luke890]

Hello again

Pat, I tried your suggestions but unfortunately they didn't work for me. I also downloaded the patch but it looks like I can't apply it to the trial version. I am very close to purchasing the full version so I can apply the patch in the hope that it will resolve this problem once and for all - something I will have to sleep on I think, as I could just go back to using v12 with XP on my old computer, which worked flawlessly. Kind of defeats the object of buying a new computer, but hey!

With regard to the patch, I was wondering if anyone that has it up and running could tell me if it incorporates the "drop exterior face" option in 'wall properties' back into v14? I was disappointed to see it missing in the new version, as I'm currently working on a project that has a ground floor height of 600mm (instead of the default 305mm) and when I change the builing locations to match this, the building 'hovers'. In v12 I was always able to drop the exterior face of the walls so that they met with the terrain, however I can't seem to do this with v14. I hope the patch addresses this issue, or perhaps there's a 'work around' that I'm missing?

Thanks once again

Luke

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Luke,

Have a look in your trial V14 at Help/ About.  What are the last 3 digits of the version number? If they are 662, then it includes the patch. If you choose to buy it and it is 624 or 637, then you will need to apply the appropriate patch after you enter the 'unlock' code. Incidentally I just received an email offer of 50% off on V14 (and other things) which is even cheaper than the upgrade price.  Wonder if that means V15 is approaching?

Unfortunately the V14 patch does not restore the 'drop face'. I am hoping V15 will and have a specific request in for this to happen.  It does not worry me particularly, as we usually work with 100mm concrete floors ,100mm about ground so the drop face for me goes 100mm below the terrain.

For your 600mm drop face requirement you could just use a thick slab with the edges set to the same texture or a foundation location with 300mm walls.  Bit of extra messing around but should work. If you duplicate your ground floor walls to the mini foundation you should get perfect alignment.

Another option of course is to download a trail version of Envisioneer, create some walls with the drop faces you may need, export them as a BIM file and load the BIM into TFP, and you will then have the walls with the drop faces lengths you require.

Your Basic render example is odd - have not seen that before and can't think of a logical explanation i'm afraid.  If you are like me you probably rarely use Basic render anyway, so hopefully it will not be too much of an issue for you.

Allan