Crashing TFP

[peterbennett]

Running  Vista with TFP's hardware acceleration turned off, TFP updated to latest bug fixed version (yeah right). I can crash FTP by using a 1mm nudge repeatedly on any wall. It ( Visioneer 5) keeps reporting 'the problem' to Microsoft, but there are no solutions offerred.

Is Envisioneer as unstable as TFP, or has the cutting down process been done too crudely and left the code fundamentally unstable. I am now saving every 5 minutes, but I am not used to products being this unstable its a bit like the BSOD days of win95.

Is there anything that can make it perform more stably?

Will there be more bug fixes from IMSI/Envisioneer, they are badly needed.

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Peter,

I use 1mm nudge all the time and have not had any problems and no others have reported one either. I do not have Vista, but I doubt that would be the problem either.  There are a few issues reported with Vista but they seem to be mainly installation issues.  After that things usually seem to be OK.

Have you tried the Nudge on a new project?  If you find that is OK, then I would suspect that the crash is coming from a wall corruption - this is the most common cause of crashes. When you draw a wall you should have a green marker where you started the wall, a red one where you finished and a blue one in the middle.  If you get a green/red marker in the middle of a wall it indicates a break that may be an issue (unless it is a break you added).  Delete one side and drag the free end through to make the wall one continuous wall.

Also check the wall joins, zoom in real close and you may find little pieces of wall within the main join.  It should be a clean T or + join each wall forming a triangle into the join as you select each wall. Sometimes there are other little pieces left behind especially if you have had several goes at joining a wall and these can also cause problems.  Sometimes you can select the little segments that should not be there and delete them and the wall join will self heal. Occasionally you may have to make the join again cleanly by deleting one part of the T or + and redo it.

The image below is a purposely corrupted join. From a distance it may look fine but when you zoom in you see bits missing, the cavity lines are broken and the outer veneer as changed colour, meaning it has adopted an 'inside' surface.  When you highlight it all, (in the second iamge), you can see all the little bits left behind (from previous 'accidental' attempts at the join).

Hopefully that is all it is and once you find and fix the corruption(s), the nudge should be back to normal. I am only guessing of course, but a 1mm nudge of a corrupt wall could be the issue as it would be trying to work out what to do with bits of baseboard, cornice etc that would still be attached to these little segments of wall.

If that does not help, or you can't find a corruption and still have the problem, post or email the BLD and I will have a look at it for you.

I monitor the Envisioneer forum also and they seem to report the same known issues as TFP.  This part of the program is the same, it is mainly areas of 2D construction drawings and some extended customisation that have been disabled.  As with TFP I have not seen any reports in Envisioneer of issues with the nudge tool.

Any bug fixes in Envisioneer usually flow through to TFP within a few weeks.  The only thing I know that makes it perform more stably is Windows XP. I use the program every day and since the patch, I do not recall having ever had any crashes, on two very different PCs, Windows XP and a laptop with Windows 2000 (now also on XP).  Hopefully if we can find a corrupt wall it will stablise (on this model at least).

Allan

[peterbennett]

Allan here's the model

I could get crashes by moving windows and internal walls. But the crahes tended to be when I nudged many times very quickly both on the ground floor and second floor. (bottom RH corner entities)

Thanks

[Allan Chesney]

Well I tried my hardest to get this to crash but couldn't.  Presumably there is something different on your PC that is causing the problem. It may still be wall issues, so if you fix the ones I have identified in the images, it may solve the problem. They could cause other problems too later if not fixed anyway.

Very rapid nudges may have agrivated the problem too - if the PC does not keep up with the graphics changes you will find the movements are still continuing after you have finished clicking, as the display may be lagging behind your clicks. If you try to do something else thinking it is finished, that may trigger the crash.  Have you tried with HA on? It may even be OK then.

You have a number of problems with wall heights, some parts auto extend and others are fixed on the same floor.  Essentailly all should auto extend EXCEPT the walls under the Roof Cut location - you will have to set these manually to stop them protruding through the roof.  The main roof can just be inserted (by Picking Points) straight onto the Second Floor location walls, with all exterior walls set to extend to the roof.

I hope that clears up the problem for you.

Allan

[peterbennett]

Thanks Allan,

Could you stop the walls from going through the roof, and get the roof to fit?  Had I done the right thing with the extra locations or were they superfluous to getting the new roof at right angles to the first? If so could you attach the new bld file and let me know where I have to look for the key settings?

Thanks very much,

Peter

ps what is the recommended method for 'healing' these misalignments, do I magnify up and nudge. Start from scratch (I hope not) or something else?

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Peter, 

You will have to set the wall height individually to stop them going through although most of them shouldn't if you have that roof location at the right level (top of the walls) or those walls are just too high. 

One of the roof locations is not needed as it can be just sit on the second floor walls.The other needs to be on its own location. I will attach a BLD file later as it is after 1am here at the moment.

You should be able to just delete the little wall segments and then drag the loose end of wall to join up again. The  outside veneer may vanish in the process but will return when it joins again. Use the nudge, if you can, to align the wall and where the break is mid wall, delete one side and drag the end to join up again.

Allan

[peterbennett]

Hi Allan,

Some progress (please see attached jpeg) , I am getting the hang of selecting roof sections individually and setting its type and slope. But as the 2nd 'butting up' roof is on a new location, the  brick wall on the second floor will not fill the triangular shape on the gable end.

I set  the wall heights on these two new roof locations to 1mm, as per your lakewood bld tips. Any ideas on how to fill the gaps?

Thanks,

Peter

ps Update:- set wall to 2500mm  on the roof cut location drew a wall enclosure underneath the oblong of the new roof, allowed it to extend freely at the gable end but set wall level to 30 mm along sides. JOB sorted

[Allan Chesney]

Peter, 

You can also just turn the Display Gable on in the roof properties, although sometimes this does not render quite as well. Occasionally slightly different colour. Works? Perfecting though if the texture in the gable is different.

Allan