Terrain/Slopes/Contours

[Garry]

Is it possible to change all the basement walls from 9' to 10' at once (instead of one at a time)?

Slopes:  Is it possible to have all the "green arrows slopes" to show up at the same time (instead of one at a time)?

Contours:  Are these one foot contours?  I have a slope of about 12 ft. from SW corner to NE corner but it is showing about 21 contour lines.

Do you know what I have done to the 3D view?  It was working fine but now it just shows 'blue sky".

Should the "tape measure" under tools work in the "Elevation" views?  It is not.

In the Right Elev. view it is showing an open area under the footing - I am assuming that would be a "Fill Area" - is there a way to tell how many feet that would be?

Is this program able to determine how many cu. ft. of fill and/or cut would be needed?

To get the roof correct I set the garage up as part of the house - is there a way to change it to a garage & lower the floor elevation a foot or so from the floor level?

When I try to click on to the "Edging" to extend the lines it keeps picking up the "terrain" which is the slopes in many areas - some area it picks up the "Edging" - any suggestions?

...
Attached is a file.
FYI
I have used outdoor columns as property corners.
Edging for property lines, building lines, set backs and other reference points.

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Garry,

I will slot the answers between your questions:

Is it possible to change all the basement walls from 9' to 10' at once (instead of one at a time)?
Right click on one and choose "Select all Similar", select Properties, then change the height. If it selects more walls than you want to change then select one and Shift/click on the others, then go to Properties. Changing the wall height will not change the height of any thing above it (eg the roof). You must change the settings in Building Locations but this will only affect elements added after you change the Building Location unless it is the Floor Height - this will lift everthing on the floor.

Slopes:  Is it possible to have all the "green arrows slopes" to show up at the same time (instead of one at a time)?
As with most things you can Shift/select multiple objects so you can see multiple arrows. However this does not in all cases give you access to the Properties of the object although it does for most.

Contours:  Are these one foot contours?  I have a slope of about 12 ft. from SW corner to NE corner but it is showing about 21 contour lines.
Contour line frequency can be changed in Settings/ Program Settings/ Terrain.

Do you know what I have done to the 3D view?  It was working fine but now it just shows 'blue sky".
The camera has been moved so that it is not pointing at the model. Use the Reset Camera icon at the end of the View and Navigate toolbar.  I suspect this has come about because the camera is trying to show everything and you have a piece of baseboard that is going off into infinity at the back of the house (see image). This is generally caused by a badly joined wall and will need to be fixed as it will casue other issue down the track (apart from the baseboard issue!)  I am not sure why but, looking at the model closer, you appear to have two walls parallel to each other at the front. The corruption appears to be the tiny sliver of wall between the two front walls. If you zoom in close on the plan and delete the section of wall between the two, the baseboard will disappear and the camera and Zoom to Extents view on the plan should then work. Ifs there a reason for the two walls. They will cause problems with doors and windows later maybe.

Should the "tape measure" under tools work in the "Elevation" views?  It is not.
Sorry, the tape measure only works on the plan.

In the Right Elev. view it is showing an open area under the footing - I am assuming that would be a "Fill Area" - is there a way to tell how many feet that would be?  Is this program able to determine how many cu. ft. of fill and/or cut would be needed?
Not that I know of. It will determine the cubic measure of a room, so you  may be able to configure the plan for a room (use another location) to mimic the fill/cut area but is sounds like a hard job to do. The unusual shaped open area under the building is caused by the 'AutoCut Terrain' being set the the second floor - normally it would be set to the Ground floor although this will still create a hole of course.


To get the roof correct I set the garage up as part of the house - is there a way to change it to a garage & lower the floor elevation a foot or so from the floor level?
Create a new Location for the garage, set the floor level one foot lower than the Ground Floor floor level, then go back to the Ground Floor, Select all the elements (walls etc) that you want to move to the other location and right click. Select Duplicate to Location and choose the new Garage location. Everything you selected will be copied so you can the delete everthing from the orginal location. Where walls were shared you may need to use the Room Divide tool to join the 'hanging' walls so that the room area is complete, otherwise your Exterior surfaces will become Interior ones.When I try to click on to the "Edging" to extend the lines it keeps picking up the "terrain" which is the slopes in many areas - some area it picks up the "Edging" - any suggestions?
Go to the View Filter, Terrain tab and click the Selection icon next to the Terrain to make it unselectable.
...
Attached is a file.
FYI
I have used outdoor columns as property corners.
Edging for property lines, building lines, set backs and other reference points.
There are 2D drawing tools on the Layout toolbar for things like that if you do not need to see them in 3D.

Hope that helps,

Allan

[Garry]

Thanks for your help.

Front walls with a sliver:
On my plan, I want a brick front -vinyl on the sides and back.
I originally want to draw a 8 or 9" wall (stud wall plus brick).

I was told by another source that the program is not made to do that - is this correct?

So I basically drew a 4" brick wall and then a 4" interior wall next to it.  The "sliver" would be the air space.

[Garry]

Most changes and/or problems you have help me correct.  There are some that I still cannot get right - I am sure it is my operating error.  I have been very impressed with the TFP program.
Is it possible to have you make changes and send me back the file?

I prefer to learn the program and do it myself but after many many hours, I still am not get it correct and I am running out of time for this project.  Later when I have more free time I want to learn the program in more detail.

Thanks again for all of you help.

[email protected]

[Garry]

I did change the contours to 1' - on the back of the property, I have a ditch with 5' of fall from left to right.  I put it in as a slope -5' but the contours are showing 21'.

Note:
I have been entering my slopes by x.xx' (feet, decimel, hundreds) - it seems to be converting it to feet/inches.  Is it okay to do it this way or should I enter them as feet & inches or some other way?

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Garry,

Front walls with a sliver:
On my plan, I want a brick front -vinyl on the sides and back.
I originally want to draw a 8 or 9" wall (stud wall plus brick).

I was told by another source that the program is not made to do that - is this correct?

So I basically drew a 4" brick wall and then a 4" interior wall next to it.  The "sliver" would be the air space.

The sliver I was referring to was the piece of wall connecting the two walls you have at the front. The two walls will cause problems so all you need to do is delete one (the inside one where the garage doors are and the outside ones on the rest.  All you need to do then is set the thickness of these walls to 8 or 9 inches and on the Properties / Appearance tab change the Exterior to the Brick you want. Leave all the other walls as Vinyl of course.

This will not show a double wall on the plan of course but in 3D everthing will appear OK.  If you want the double walls with a cavity between them to show on the plan, then import the attached BIM files (File/ Catalogue / Import BIM). After Import the new walls will be in the Walls catalogue and I think one ofthem is a 4" + cavity 4" wall (or maybe 100mm). You can then select the front walls, right click and select Replace, choosing the new wall. Change the Exterior surface to the brick you want.

Most changes and/or problems you have help me correct.  There are some that I still cannot get right - I am sure it is my operating error.  I have been very impressed with the TFP program.
Is it possible to have you make changes and send me back the file?

I could make the changes but you would not be able to open the file as I am now using TFP V15.1 and once the update has been done it is not reversible.  This update has not been released yet as it is still under test but it means that the file could not be opened by your V15.0. Can you just let me know the ones you have problems with and I will try to make the explanation clearer.

I did change the contours to 1' - on the back of the property, I have a ditch with 5' of fall from left to right.  I put it in as a slope -5' but the contours are showing 21'.

Note:
I have been entering my slopes by x.xx' (feet, decimel, hundreds) - it seems to be converting it to feet/inches.  Is it okay to do it this way or should I enter them as feet & inches or some other way?

I am wondering whether you would be better entering an Angle rather than feet, as it all appears very steep. I do not know the property of course but the house only touches the terrain in one corner and the other corner is probably 20' above the ground, so it seems very steep or the foundations need to be extended considerably. If you enter feet it must be the feet (height) at the end of the arrow - if you stetch or shorten the arrow then the angle will be wrong.  If you use the degrees of the incline then you don't have that problem.

Setting the terrain is not easy. Personally I have always found the Plateau tool is the easiest to get the contours.

Let me know the things you still have problems with.

Allan

[Garry]

Thanks again for you help.

The terrain:
The lot is not very steep - it is pretty much ideal for a walkout basement.  The contours are what is coming up off.  The lot is 70'x107'.  The greatest amount of slope is 12' going from the highest point @ bottom left corner (on the dwg.) diagonally to the lowest point @ top right corner (on the dwg.).  I have the slope set to approx. 11.5' but the contours are showing a 51' slope.

At the back of the lot (top of the dwg.) which is a drainage ditch - I have a 5' fall slope set from left to right - contours are showing are showing a 21' fall. 
The 5' slope is for 110 feet so it is not that steep - 21' in 110' feet is pretty steep but is not what I have.

Plateau:
I guess I don't understand the "plateau".  I thought a plateau would be if you had a level spot.  My lot has no level spots - it is made up of "slopes", so I thought it would be better/easier to use slopes.  Many of my slopes are pretty small 6 inches/25 feet.  The whole lot has been graded to drain to the street or the ditch.

I have attached and updated the dwg. with elevation points (approx. 9 of them).  "0.00" is the highest point - all others are negative - down hill.

Note:
I am assuming that when you set a slope it will fall/rise that many feet in the distance that you "drag" the arrow.  It is not the slope over some many preset feet is it?

[Garry]

Changes:
If you made the changes, could you save it as a PDF or JPG file and then would I be able to download and/or import it into TFP?
Thanks

[Garry]

Note:
I just noticed that the "elevation points" I put in on the file are on the "second floor".

Is there an easy way to transfer them to the basement and first floor?

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Garry,

The terrain:
The lot is not very steep - it is pretty much ideal for a walkout basement.  The contours are what is coming up off.  The lot is 70'x107'.  The greatest amount of slope is 12' going from the highest point @ bottom left corner (on the dwg.) diagonally to the lowest point @ top right corner (on the dwg.).  I have the slope set to approx. 11.5' but the contours are showing a 51' slope. 

At the back of the lot (top of the dwg.) which is a drainage ditch - I have a 5' fall slope set from left to right - contours are showing are showing a 21' fall. 
The 5' slope is for 110 feet so it is not that steep - 21' in 110' feet is pretty steep but is not what I have.

Plateau:
I guess I don't understand the "plateau".  I thought a plateau would be if you had a level spot.  My lot has no level spots - it is made up of "slopes", so I thought it would be better/easier to use slopes.  Many of my slopes are pretty small 6 inches/25 feet.  The whole lot has been graded to drain to the street or the ditch.

I have attached and updated the dwg. with elevation points (approx. 9 of them).  "0.00" is the highest point - all others are negative - down hill.

Note:
I am assuming that when you set a slope it will fall/rise that many feet in the distance that you "drag" the arrow.  It is not the slope over some many preset feet is it?

The Terrain:
The problem with your slopes is coming about because every slope you use subtracts from the original. Probably you started with -12' from one corner of the block to the other so TFP slopes the terrain from 0 at the lower left to -12' at the upper right. This would now put your house about 5' above the terrain.  If you then draw another slope of -5', it will lower the terrain again relative to the zero point by another 5' ( upper right is now 18' below the lower left and the house about 10' above the terrain.  Every negative slope will continue to cut away at the base terrain, lowering it still further relative to the zero point.

I assume the lower left corner is actually higher than the Ground Floor level. If so, you need to go to Settings / Programme Settings / Terrain and set the Terrain Base Level.  If the highest point of the block is 5' above the Ground Floor level, then set the Terrain base level to +5'. Now when you enter a negative slope it should place the house at the correct level.  If the total fall across the block is 12' then you need to use + and - slopes to keep the lowest point at still 12' below the highest.  The slope is just for the length of the arrow. (See the comments below about your elevation points for further explanation).

Plateaus:
The advantage of plateaus is that you can shape them. Yes the top would be flat but that can be totally off your terrain area. In effect you can draw the contour lines (starting outside the terrain and finishing outside the terrain) hence accounting for the ditch also. However, as with slopes, each plateau or contour you draw will add or subtact from the previous, so angle is a better option than feet and again a combination of + and - to keep the whole terrain from becoming too 'deep'.

The best thing to do, to understand what is happening, is to use a new blank file, add a rectangular wall shape to represent the house and slope the terrain one way from side to side - then look at the Front Elevation. Now do another slope (or plateau) across part of the slope and look at the elevation again and see what happens.  Remember that when you get the slope right you can raise the whole terrain if necessary in the Settings menu to make the house at the right level. 

Unfortunately with the terrain tool, practise is the only way. A new or enhanced terrain tool is in development but exactly when it will appear we don't know.

Changes:
If you made the changes, could you save it as a PDF or JPG file and then would I be able to download and/or import it into TFP?

Sorry but this would not help, JPG and PDF are only 2D. It could be done with DXF or 3DS (which are 3D) but you would not be able to edit anything except the textures - it would be just one solid block.

I just noticed that the "elevation points" I put in on the file are on the "second floor".

Is there an easy way to transfer them to the basement and first floor?

You can copy objects from one floor to another by selecting any objects you want to copy, right click and select Duplicate to Locations.  This will copy them to the selected location. Don't forget to delete them from the original one unless you want them on both locations.

Using your elevation points as an example for understanding how to draw the slopes: The negative figure to enter for a slope would be the height DIFFERENCE between one elevation point and the other and the arrow would only be the drawn between the two elevation points.  So if you had two points one at -2' and the next one -3' and those elevation points were 10' apart, then the slope is 1' and the arrow 10' long. This then would lower everything beyond the -3' point by 1', effectively deepening the whole terrain by another foot relative to the zero point.  The same would be true of plateaus.

I hope some of that makes sense and helps in some way.

Allan

[Garry]

Allen,
Thanks again for your time and help.

I have worked with it awhile.  I see what you mean about subtracting from the whole lot - but I am not following how to correct it.  I have revised the attached file with the elevation points on the "BASEMENT" floor.

I could not "copy, duplicate and/or delete" them from the "SECOND" floor - every time I try, "terrain" keeps coming up, I have tried zooming, etc.  I cannot get anything to come up but "terrain & driveway".  I cannot get "edging, text, walls, etc." to come up - just terrain & driveway.

Here is what I did:
Slope:  -11.44'     Pt. 0.00 to Pt. -11.44  - worked fine, I think
Slope:  -1.00       Pt. -11.44 to Pt. -12.44  - worked fine, I think
Slope:  +5.07       Pt. -12.44 to Pt. -7.37  -  dropped the whole lot by 5 feet - I also tried the reverse (-5.07' from -7.37 to -12.44)  It went from 12' drop across the lot to 17'.

At this point, I see what it is doing (per your comments) but do not understand why or your comments on how to correct it.



With the attached file & elevation points as noted on the BASEMENT FLOOR (not second floor), could you please walk me through it step by step so I can understand it.  Which points should I start with and in which order or does that matter?

NOTE:  I PLAN TO PUT THE GROUND FLOOR AT ABOUT 1.5 FEET ABOVE POINT 0.00.  I WANT TO BREAK THE GARAGE OUT OF THE HOUSE AND PUT THE GARAGE FLOOR AT ABOUT 0.5 FEET ABOVE POINT 0.00.  THESE MAY CHANGE ONCE I CAN SEE THE TERRAIN CORRECTLY.
I may drop the GROUND FLOOR LEVEL down to a few inches above the garage floor - whatever I do, they would both be above POINT 0.00 so I can have positive drainage away from the house.

...
Making some FILE changes for me - is there any options where I could forward you the file and you could make a few changes for me?  I could really use some help on that if there is anyway possible.  Is there anyone else I could send the file to so maybe they could do it? 
With the program/version you have, do you have the option to save to an older version?  I know a lot of program are set up to do that (WORD, EXCEL).


Thanks again.

[Garry]

Allen,
Another thought - am I trying to use too many slopes?  I originally thought the more slopes & elevations points I used and more accurate it would be.
Thanks

[Allan Chesney]

Hi Garry,

Yes I think you are probably making it too complicated.  Is extreme accuracy ofthe terrain critical? 

It seemsto me that it could be simplificed somwhat as some ofthe height differences are not very big and would not show in 3D. 
Basically you have two directions. In round figures you have a 4'+ slope across the front left to right and a 6'+ slope on the left from the zero point to top of the ditch. The combined effect of the two is a 11' diagonal slope. It appears that is essentially it. The ditch, by your dimensions is only 1' deep and 18' wide. This is negligible as far as seeing anything in 3D although it does show on a section view of course. It really depends on the purpose for the terrain. TFP is basically for 3D visualisation so fine graduations of the terrain do not really show.

Try deleting all the slopes you have and just do those two and maybe the ditch if you want and see how that goes.

As far as someone else doing it for you, I don't really know anyone personally who has TFP, only those who comment on the forum, so I don't know who would be the most familiar with the terrain tool. Maybe someone else reading this may respond if they can do it for you. 

If just the two or 3 slopes I have suggested miss some critical incline, then mention that one and I will try to explain how to add it.

Allan

[Garry]

Allen,
Thanks again for the help.  It looks like I have it pretty close.
For future use, I really like to get a better grasp for how the program works.
Does it matter if you start at the highest point and use "negative slopes" or start at the lowest point and use "positive slopes" or would the results be the same? 

I still have the issue of not be able to make changes to the edge, text, etc. - "Terrain" only still keeps indicating - never can get it to any of the others.


...

On the issue of sending you a file and making changes I was really referring to another post that you had replied to.
I have the terrain problem handled but I could really use some help on the floor plan/style of the house.

It took me many many many hours to get the roof layout right but to get it the way I wanted I did several things that I now need to change - I have read through many of the blogs, help, etc. but still can't seem to get it right.

I want to keep the roof/house style like I have it but need to change the following:
1.  I set the garage up as part of the house - need to break it out.  The "attic" area above the garage will be a usable 2nd story area.

2.  I am doing a "Salt Box" style house - one story in the front, 2 story in the back (plus the walkout basement -would make it 3 story in the back).
     2nd floor would have "zero" walls in the front and 8' walls in the back.  I made it a "ranch".

3.  I want a roughly 4 to 6 inch roof pitch in the back over the 8' walls.

You have answered the above changes previously in the Forum but I still have not been able to get it right.


...

Another question:
Is this program able to pull out a "wall section"?

[Garry]

On the attached file, in the left and right elevation view, there appears to be some type of "blue pipes" running through the lot.  What does this represent?

Also, what is the difference in the "blue" and " black" areas?

Thanks